The Return Episode: Do Titles Still Matter? KOTR and Ryan's Rant

The guys are back at it! The Podcast returns with a slight change in format. In this return episode the Brooks, Chay and Ryan chat about championships in wrestling. Are championships still important in 2026? They also make their choices for the upcoming King and Queen of the Ring tournaments. And to finish the episode, Ryan needs to vent...he's frustrated with WWE. 

Thank you for listening to our podcast!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:20

What's up, guys? Welcome back to the three stages of the marks podcast. We're back, guys. This is uh it's Jay, Brooks, Ryan back in the saddle once again. What's up, guys?

SPEAKER_01 0:38

What's going on? What's going on? We're back. About the right time.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

That's right. How long has it been? It's been two years. Two years?

SPEAKER_01 0:47

I think it's closer to two years. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Man, that's crazy. Brooks, I I can barely hear you guys speak up.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

I don't wanna.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Have to. Okay. For the sake of the recording. I know.

unknown 0:59

I know.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

All right. So we're back. We're gonna change the format a little bit. So the way that we're gonna do the podcast going forward is we're all gonna pick one topic that we're gonna talk about in each episode, right? That way everything just flows organically. You know, we're not trying to go through whole entire shows and we're not trying to talk for an hour and a half. We want to keep it nice and concise and get right to the point. So, with that being said, we're gonna start with my topic. And my my topic for the first episode back. This is episode 21, by the way. So we have all of our past episodes are still up on the podcast channels. You can go back and uh and catch those if you'd like to. But this is episode 21. We're gonna start with the state of wrestling championships and and how important are wrestling championships in this day and age of wrestling, right? Because in the past, there was this like unwritten rule, or maybe there was a rule somewhere that you know every champion had to defend, you know, within 30 days or be stripped of the title. I feel like that was an unwritten rule, right? Was that like an official thing?

SPEAKER_01 2:21

I I remember vividly where Seamus was champion and he was like, I'm gonna defend the title against somebody, and it was like Zach Ryder. He's like, now I don't have to defend the title for another 30 days. And I forgot who was GM at the time, it might have been the anonymous raw general manager or whatever, but had him defend the title against like Cena or somebody like that or whatever it was. But they made it known at some point, it might be an unwritten rule, but like you said, like now we go like what two months without a title being defended.

SPEAKER_00 2:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

I I think it's a rule when they want it to be a rule.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Yeah, pretty much. Because I'm looking at like Liv Morgan, for example, right? Like she won the title at Mania, and she hasn't even like sniffed on number one contender since.

SPEAKER_02 3:08

Yeah. And then you have champions that like the tag titles that are getting defended every week. Right. For uh Priest and Truth.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

But against non-teams.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Yeah, against nobodies. Well, they they just released all their uh several teeth tag teams. Like last year was was almost like a peak year for the tag team division because they got their spot every single week.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

That that was the best part of like, I guess, the tag team division last year. I mean, it was favorite for I loved it, man. Seeing several tag teams going for the titles, it made the titles important, and now they can't do that with any of all the other resting the rest of the titles. Like what's going on with that?

SPEAKER_00 3:48

So uh so so I'm thinking about Liv, right? And how basically she's just walking around with a title around her waist, right? It doesn't mean like anything, but then you have the secondary titles, like the US title that's well was being defended every week, but now it's not because Trick is no longer doing the the open challenges, but he still has defended the championship uh a few times since he's become champion, which is pretty cool to see. But then you look at like the world titles, right? And I know how things are when Roman's champion, right? His matches come across as very important, uh, and they do a lot of build-up, and people seem to love the way that they build his matches. I think a lot of the opponents come out looking strong, right? Because they get some credibility from working with Roman and kind of getting their eyes, kind of getting the fans' eyes on them, right, as a as a viable contender, but at the same time, like the it's it's not enough for me.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

I mean, you can look back in his his long reign and a bunch of guys that it looked like it moved up to main event, like Cesaro being a good example when he had his matches, but then as soon as they were done facing Roman, they just drop back off. So if they don't do anything to follow up with it, then what's the point?

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Right. Right. Because if you if you flip over to the AW side, right, and I I still believe that AW has too many titles, but on kind of a flip side, they tend to run title matches a lot more often, even if they don't feel important. I think it's still important for the live audience to feel like they're getting something special, right? And even if you know that the the champion's not losing the title, it still adds a layer of excitement to a show when you're live and you know that there's like a world title on the line or international title on the line or tag titles on the line. Um, I think that's one of the things that they kind of do right, is they still kind of add those like little nuggets in there, you know, in between just try just to add some uh I don't know, a different pace, you know, to the shows. I don't know what you guys think.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

AEW, they have so many titles, like you said, they they're having title matches almost every episode, like every dynamite, every collision, there's a title online. My one of my issues is well, this happened recently, Darby Allen defending the world title. He defended it like six or seven times, literally. And I I I wasn't a fan of that because we all know Darby out Darby wasn't losing. I think I the majority of people knew Darby wasn't gonna lose. But uh I don't there there's probably some positive side to him defending the title so many times, and guess we can say like he did defend the title every single match that he was champion. But uh what I was gonna say is uh one of the little issues I do have is that he trying to incorporate all these ring of honor titles onto AEW's TV as well, and that just it it floods the titles, like there's so many championships. If they could just keep the Ring of Honor separate from AEW, I'd be more okay with that. But when there's guys that are wrestling every week on AEW, but they are also a Ring of Honor champion, like when Bro like I think Brodito is still world champion or like world champion, right? For Ring of Honor. Yeah, and he's been wrestling on AEW every week, which is which is fine and all, but it's like they I wish they had more of a set roster for Ring of Honor and kept their champions over there more, and vice versa. Like I know it's still the same company, like we want to include Ring of Honor and AEW as the same company, but it just like you said, there's so many championships, and it just feels like everyone's a champion at this point.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

I mean, you don't see the NXT titles on Raw and SmackDown every week. No, you don't there you there needs to be some separation in that instance with the ROH stuff, um, especially when they've got so many people on the roster they can afford to separate the roster.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

But I I think it's more of a visibility thing, yeah. And and not speaking from the titles specifically, like separating the wrestlers from the belts, I think it's just getting your ROH stars on national TV, getting them in front of like new fans, and then maybe those fans will transition over and watch them on Ring of Honor. Now, as far as the titles being defended on AW TV, that I don't really understand. Um, but maybe that's the same thing, right? Maybe Tony Khan thinks that okay, we defend these ROH titles on Dynamite, maybe that'll lead to some new business for Ring of Honor. I'm not sure if what their numbers look like for their pay-per-views and stuff, but I mean I I guess I can understand the logic.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

I mean, that would make sense if all their champions weren't guys that had been on AEW TV before Ring of Honor was even purchased.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

I mean, Banditos had plenty of time on AEW TV before being ROH champion. AR Fox had his run on AEW, Lee Moriarty clearly had his run. Uh Guevara is one of the tag champions.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:36

Isn't isn't Roosh tag champion with Guevara or is that um Guevara and the Beast Mortos. That's right. Yeah, Ingo Bird Nablay, however you pronounce that. Um like the only one that they've really that really hasn't been like a cemented AEW talent that's one of their champions is Athena. She's been the RH women's title for 200 years at this point.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

Yeah, that's what I respect with with Athena. You don't see her on AW. I think she's realistically like on AW TV. I think she's only had like a handful of matches. She doesn't wrestle on dynamite or collision ever.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

She tends to show up for the Owen. And that's about it.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

Yeah. She so she shows up like once or twice a year. You know, on dynamite.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

Like I had no clue until I just looked at it. The Ring of Honor Six Man is Dalton Castle and the Outrunners. Like the Outrunners were were doing good on Dynamite and Collision. Like before going to ROH. They didn't like you don't need to put them on there every once in a while to get our eyes on ROH when they were already established for AEW.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Yeah. Yeah. I still don't feel like the Outrunners got a fair shake on the main roster. Well, look at me saying main roster. Um I don't think they got a fair shake when they were on dynamite and collision. Like they got a small push, but I feel like they should have gotten at least one, you know, title run.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

Especially with this how over they are with the fans.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

If only the herb business would have put them over.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

Oh geez. They're not putting well, they're not putting anybody over, but different, different, uh, that's a different story.

SPEAKER_02 11:21

So what do you mean they put over Triple H online every week?

SPEAKER_00 11:24

Oh geez. Yeah. So I guess all this to to ask, like, do you do you guys think that titles are still important in wrestling?

SPEAKER_01 11:42

I I I do I do. Like I think it the like I want to gosh, sorry I stutter. Oh my lord. The intercontinental championship at one point was like a very prestigious championship. It got people set up to possibly be a world champion. There was times on commentary where they're like, majority of intercontinental champions want to be a world champion. Or something like that. I remember hearing that like a long time ago, and they would like bred like I guess mid-card champions to potentially be a world champion. But I do think some titles have lost their prestige just because of them not being defended, or it's just not being seen, or just doesn't feel special.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

Yeah, I don't think the titles themselves are all that important anymore. I think the moments of somebody capturing the title is is typically the most important part of it now. Like the Darby going all the years before finally winning the world title. Him winning it was like, okay, that's a big moment. Nothing they did after that was gonna be as important. Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

Yeah. And I I think I think I think from my perspective, it all comes down to the journey to the title. Because I feel like today you can put a title on almost anybody. Um, like if somebody's at the top of the card, right, you can put a belt on basically any of those guys and it would be fine. Same with like the mid-card guys, right? If you have any mid-card titles, you can put them on any of those mid-card guys. Um, but when they're not defending the titles, or the the storylines just aren't strong enough to carry the title, like back then when the IC title was like super prestigious, and those were like the you knew the next step up was gonna be the world title, that's because they they kind of focused more on those next level guys, like you knew like Macho Man or Piper or uh Brett or Sean, like you knew that they were like top-tier guys, whereas today you have like your Carmelo Hayes, not saying that Carmelo Hayes isn't couldn't be a top guy, but he's just not at that like level to where he can like step into a world title program tomorrow and people are gonna believe it. That makes sense, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:21

Yeah, I mean it's it seems like most of the time when they think somebody can step into the world title program, they just catapult him straight to it now. Yeah, other than maybe Trick is an exception, like him actually getting a mid-card title. I'm sure once he drops it, he'll be catapulted to the main event, but they also put him straight into title contention like as soon as they called him up.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

Yeah. Which is one thing that I feel like they do with the females, is the females almost go directly to a title, like without fail.

SPEAKER_02 14:59

It's probably because of the lack of depth that they have. They somehow have more women than ever, but still a lack of depth in the women's division.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

Yep. I agree with that. I agree with that. Yeah, okay. I mean, that's that that's kind of what I wanted to to talk about today because I'll just look at champions and I'm like, uh not really feeling these these title reigns. And I hate first run title reigns for like new champions, right? I feel like the first title reign is always like terrible, and then it's like when they recapture the belt, that's when I start to really like care about their title runs. But hopefully that's not the case when Braun wins his world title. Hopefully they treat him fairly, but we'll see. Um but yeah, that's that's it for me, Brooks. You're up, man.

SPEAKER_02 15:49

Alright, so my topic for today would be our predictions for the king and queen of the ring tournaments. So obviously, because recording after Raw, after the first matches, uh, we know Obafemi has already won his fatal four-way qualifier. Uh, and that EOSky won hers. Um, so I guess we could just go through the rest of the bracket and see what we each think.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

Alright, so the next Fatal Fourway looks like it would be Dom, Braunbreaker, Trick Williams, and Damien Priest. And whoever wins that moves on to face Oba. It's hard not to say Breaker won't win it, but also I feel like they're not putting him in the tournament to not be at SummerSlam to face for the fight for the title, so I I feel like there's probably gonna be something screwy or something for him not to win that match. So I think Trick is probably the most likely to win that one.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

That's a that's a pull right there.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Well, they have history too.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

That's true.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

Oba and Trick.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

Right. That is true.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

But I also I think that whoever Oba faces, there's gonna be some type of interference. But I mean, Oba going to the finals makes sense to me.

SPEAKER_02 17:16

It does. I I was thinking the same thing about the interference of who could they put Oba up against where Brock inevitably interferes, cost Oba, but the crowd's not terribly mad at whoever wins the match. Um, and I think that's that's another reason why it makes sense for Trick to move forward and it potentially happening there because they're still gonna be behind Trick no matter how he wins that match.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Yeah, true. So I'm still saying that okay, uh my my pick is Breaker for the whole thing. For that match, okay for that match, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

I think I'm gonna pick I'm gonna go ahead and pick Breaker too, just because um it's leaning towards Breaker going to the finals. I I don't know. I I'm really hoping he gets this title match at SummerSlam, but we we really won't know.

SPEAKER_02 18:18

I just don't think he's I don't think the the story with Seth is done yet, and I don't see him being in the title match at SummerSlam yet because of that. But just depends on whatever AI tells them to do that week. Uh so we'll see. I got I picked Trick and y'all picked Breaker.

unknown 18:42

Alright.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

Um the next match would be Seth Rollins, Javon Evans. WWE currently has Tala Tonga and Ricky Saints listed as in that match, but there has been some stories floating around that Tonga and Saints will be out, Drew and Sammy will be in. Um and in which case I think I've got Sammy winning that because I think he's gonna be the one fighting Cody at SummerSlam.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

Oh right. Damn it, you just you just killed my vibe. I'm picking Seth Rollins.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

I mean, I don't want it to be Sammy, but if they haven't been doing this whole story in the background with them for the last several months for no reason.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

So if I'm only I'm gonna give two different answers here just because we haven't really got confirmed yet if Talo Tonga and Ricky Saints are out. But if if if Tonga and Saints are in, I'm gonna pick Rollins. But if it's if Drew and Sammy are in, I'm gonna pick Drew.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

Yeah, that's fair. If Sammy's not in it, then I yeah, Rollins seems like the logical winner there.

SPEAKER_00 19:51

Yeah, I'm I'm I'm picking Rollins, regardless.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

Alright. And then the next bracket is Jay Uso, LA Knight, Royce Keys, and Finn Balor. I'm hoping for Finn. I'm hoping he actually gets a push. Uh I feel like the way they've had LA set up in the background the last couple weeks sets him up for a strong run in the King of the Ring. Um, so I think I'm gonna go with LA.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

I'm gonna pick Jay Uso.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Oh god. So I I'm gonna switch it up. I'm gonna pick Finn. I've I would pick LA Knight, but I'm just not convinced anymore, man. This man has been at the top of his game, and he gets pushed skyrocket, put a jet pack to his back, and he's there, but he's just not gonna win the world champion. I don't ever see LA Knight being a world champion. I'm convinced we're either just not gonna see LA Knight get nothing. Given the damn United States title again. That's I guess all I care about, I guess. I mean, but I'm gonna go with Finn Balor just because I'm ready to see Finn Balor become world champion again. And if we can get either a semifinals of Roll a rematch of Rollins and Finn, or if Finn, or possibly like I said, my other pick would be Drew if he's in Drew and Finn for a semifinals match. I'm just not convinced for a J or LA Knight winning that match.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

Or they could potentially just screw each other over. Because Elliot Knight and J Us have been getting heat with each other. I don't know. But I'm picking Finn.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

Alright. So that takes us to the final four. My final four was Oba, Trick, Sammy, and LA. Um, I think Brock's gonna screw Oba and let Trick get to the finals. I think Sammy's gonna end up in the finals. Sammy's gonna get his cheat to win over Trick Williams after all their bullshit that's been happening, and Sammy wins the tournament.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

Okay. So I I I don't I don't think Sammy Cody at SummerSlam. I do think it happens. I just don't think it's gonna happen there. Um I want I want Breaker and Rollins to be done, and this is the quickest way to get it done. So this is my Swan song, a rubber match of Breaker Rollins get it done, and then we either have Rollins Roman, which was supposed to be Mania, right? Right at one point, right? Or we have Breaker, and I'm thinking Breaker swaps over and goes after Cody.

SPEAKER_02 22:44

Oh okay. Yeah, I I guess I look at the tournament with the the thought of like what else could be on that SummerSlam card, and I feel like WWE specifically Triple H can't help himself but to do the Strange Bell Bedfellows tag team at SummerSlam and putting Seth and Punk together against the Vision. So that's why that just kind of takes to me, takes Seth and Breaker out in the tournament.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

Which means we have another two months of this.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

Yes, unfortunately. I also feel like that Bronson Reed is coming back very soon, which at least livens it up a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

So my final four would be Balor, if it is Rollins uh or Drew, but um we got Oba and then Breaker on the left side of the bracket. I'm going with Breaker over Oba. Probably the same thing with like Brock screwing over Oba. And then I'm gonna go with Rollins over Finn. Um damn, I lost my train of thought. What I was saying. But I think Breaker and Rollins. Okay. Yeah, Breaker and Rollins in the finals, like you said, get it done and over with. Um I think Rollins will win the whole thing, and like you said, get him and Roman at SummerSlam just to get Rollins and Breaker done. And the only reason why I wasn't gonna pick Sammy, because it is Saudy, I understand it will be Saudy. They could go with Sammy and and Trick, but I'm gonna go with Rollins winning the whole thing over Breaker in the finals.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

Alright. So then we have the Queen of the Ring bracket. The we already saw that EO Sky won her quarterfinal, whatever that that segment is. She already won her match. Um, so then we've got Liv Morgan for some reason in the tournament, despite already being a world champion. Uh Becky Lynch, Alexa Bliss, and Chelsea Green. Um, I think WWE can't help themselves and is gonna want to have the Becky Lynch Sol Ruka rematch inside of the tournament. So I've got Becky winning that that section.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

Yep, I second that. Same here.

SPEAKER_02 25:14

Yep. So that would mean Sol winning the next section, which is Sol Lyra Valkyria, Charlotte Flair, Jay Cargill. Flair and Cargill have already been having their issues, so they're gonna end up scrapping or some shit, making it easier for Sol to win. Ryan?

SPEAKER_01 25:31

Um, I'm gonna go a different route if it doesn't happen that way. I'm gonna say Bliss wins the one qualifier and Flair wins the other qualifier.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

That's yeah, I could see that happening too.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

Um and on are we doing the whole are we doing the whole bracket right now? Or is it that one side?

SPEAKER_02 25:51

We were doing one side, but the other matches Bailey, Raquel Rodriguez, JC Jane, and Kiana James. Okay. Um I I just feel like because they're gonna keep it vet and rookie kind of thing, I think JC Jane wins hers.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

I must say there's only one answer here.

SPEAKER_02 26:08

Yeah, I'm I'm going with JC Jane. I do think she's winning that, and I actually think she's probably gonna beat EO in the next round, too.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

See, now you're talking.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

So you so like I'm all for that. You guys know I'm I've I've JC Jane's been the Shawn Michaels. So I'm all like I I was looking at that match with between Bailey Rodriguez, Jane, and Keanu James. I honestly think I would be okay with either one of them winning that match. I honestly would be. I think they've been giving Kimmy Keanu James a lot of uh matches this year and giving her more opportunities, but I am also gonna go with JC Jane versus Eos Guy in the semifinals.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

I mean, the other out intriguing outcome would be if Raquel wins at all and chooses to live. Like that would that would be an interesting way of going about it.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

See, a nice swerve would be perfect.

SPEAKER_02 27:11

Right. But I mean, how many times if if if Raquel wins that first round match, how many times do we have to see Raquel versus Eo? That's also true. But uh WWE books books rematches, you know, for six months straight, so it could be possible. Um so yeah, I'd already said I've had I think I've got JC going to the final. Uh I guess that would mean I'd have Soul going to the final on the other side.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

Wait, who won it last year?

SPEAKER_01 27:49

Last year was it Liv or Rhea?

SPEAKER_00 27:55

Why am I why am I thinking of Lyra and Naya?

SPEAKER_02 27:59

Jade won it last year.

SPEAKER_00 28:01

Jade won it last year. Did Naya win it the year before?

SPEAKER_02 28:04

Naya, I think, won the year before, yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

Got it. Okay. So so Cargo's the defending Queen of the Ring. Right. I see. Hmm. Yeah, I don't think she could go into the finals though.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

No, I I feel like maybe they're gonna go with JC winning the whole tournament and having her pick Rhea because they started that kind of feud with them, but then they didn't keep it going. And it would be a good way to have her break out. They they seem to be really behind her with the way that they've used her since she's been called up.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

I mean, plus it's the only match that really makes sense, but but well, I guess, yeah, because you have to have the actual one-on-one match. It's not like money in the bank where you can just steal the belt.

SPEAKER_02 28:51

Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:51

Right. So, yeah, so Morgan and JC wouldn't sound good at all, but you have three women on the judgment day side and you have three on Fatal Influence side. That's true.

SPEAKER_02 29:04

But at the who do they turn face? Because they're not gonna do it heal versus heal.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

So who can out heal the other? Basically.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

I mean, I think Liv can get the uh face reactions if she wants to.

unknown 29:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:22

She's probably the easiest one to turn face out of the groups, and I guess it helps if if they're gonna do 3v3. Raquel's been getting the crowd behind her. So maybe it's easier to turn that group face overall. But I don't think I don't think they're going to go for that quite yet.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

Yeah, I don't know. I think the women is uh way more unpredictable than the men's side, I think.

SPEAKER_02 29:49

Yeah, uh there feels like there's a lot more viable options.

SPEAKER_00 29:53

Yeah, true. See, and you were talking about depth in the roster.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

I I know, but I mean they've got so much depth that they had to put Liv in the tournament despite being they could have put Maxine Dupree in there, you know? They could have. They could have vision or Naya. Especially if, like, at least in my prediction, Liv's not win winning that initial match, so they could have put anyone in there.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:20

I mean, I they could've as long as it wasn't Bfab, then these things were botched, by the way, if y'all didn't know that in her name.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

I do want to say that I would see f JC Jane winning the whole thing, beating Charlotte Flair in the finals.

SPEAKER_00 30:38

Why Charlotte?

SPEAKER_01 30:40

Well uh because she's been feuding with Charlotte. And I you want you wanna put you wanna put JC up against Rhea, have her go over Charlotte.

SPEAKER_02 30:48

Yeah, but at this point it looks like they've moved on to Flair and Cargill feuding.

SPEAKER_00 30:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:54

So that was my my thought was that if they went with Soul, they can revisit their NXT stuff on the grand their bigger stage. So they're probably more confident in them putting on a good match together.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

I mean, yeah, I mean I get what you're saying. I just I like the I mean we all fantasy book all the time. I just I I mean you want to like I hypothetical speaking, you want to get JC Jane ready for Rhea, I would just say put it over Flair.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

So so here's a question. Why did Tiffany Stratton get looked over in this tournament?

SPEAKER_01 31:33

That's a good question. Yeah, but Liv Morgan didn't.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

That's so weird. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

I say you've got you've got two of the four champions in the tournament in terms of the singles women's champions.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

I mean who is that?

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Yeah, that one's gonna be a toss-up.

SPEAKER_02 31:53

Yeah, I'm uh I was gonna say who's the women's tag champions, but it's Paige and Bree, and yeah, they didn't need to be in the tournament.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

No.

SPEAKER_02 32:00

But yeah, I think the Queen of the Ring, at least on paper, has the potential to be the more exciting tournament.

SPEAKER_01 32:09

I'm just more excited over if if we do get some like, you know, JC Jane getting her time to shine and Soul Ruka as well. I I like this the fresher stars getting that this opportunity. So that's why I'm more excited. The men's side, it's it's gonna be the same big names. Like, yeah, Oba probably getting a spot in there, but I don't see Oba winning it. Right we already discussed. But these I'm happy they're doing these religiously every year again, the King and Queen of the Ring tournaments, because there's been times where we had like a year's break. This is a good tournament to showcase that you know the young talent and the vets.

SPEAKER_02 32:49

I also want to mention I even though I don't see her winning her match at all, I think Chelsea Green's gonna shine in that Fatal Four way she's in. Uh and I'm waiting for them to actually you know strap the rocket to her and give her a good push.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

We can only hope.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

Indeed. So uh is it my time for my topic? It's your time. It's my time.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

My time is up, your time is now.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

We've discussed that this will be my rant about we just gotta get a we just gotta get a good we have to get a good name for your rants.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

Ryan's rant. Uh but you guys know how I I love it to be. I've been watching since I was a kid, but these like I think Brooke said it in our chat, the the spam use of retirements. And like I really hated that Brock came back after doing a really nice farewell and everything like that. I don't like I didn't like how they did that. They could have it was a great it was great that how they started it. I was like, oh, Brock's actually retired. Nope. Did that, but they they we just had several retirements back to back. The Goldberg one was a bust, the Cena one was great, AJ came up unexpectedly, but now we're it's gonna be we'll be seeing a like a running trend of retirements, and that's just gonna be the the thing people milk their money on. And I felt like the retirements beforehand, they just felt special. They don't these retirements don't feel special right now because they've been getting we've been getting so many of them, and now they're just like abusing the retirement system. And I'm just kinda kind of over it. It's it's getting boring, it's getting old, it's like I d I don't I don't care to go like like what I don't know. I'm like speechless sometimes over this stuff. Like I don't I wish WWE could just do something like I know I know this isn't even W. It's not even W anymore, it's TKO doing these silly things.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

So before you finish, so give us give us a few examples of retirements that you think were done well.

SPEAKER_01 35:03

Oh god, definitely not Sandman.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

Wait, what? Not not indie retirements, ones that we can compare the current keep in mind, keep in mind wrestling retirements don't stick. Um true, so true.

SPEAKER_02 35:21

So if if like for example, Rick Flair's first retirement, his WrestleMania retirement against Sean, perfect.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

Oh that was, yes.

SPEAKER_02 35:32

I was gonna say the Flair retirement. If you act if you ignore everything he did after that. Right. Or um Sean. Sean's retirement before he came back for the tag match.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

I think I think Taker's retirement was good, which we didn't know really. Which was good. Like we no one knew that was me against AJ Styles, like that boneyard match that I thought that was like we did we didn't know though. That's the thing. I don't know if you if if you if I can include that taker re Taker's retirement match.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

Yeah, but sometimes the best retirements are when you don't know.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

Yeah, that's what I mean. Like I think that was a good way to go. That's why Taker hasn't done anything else since.

SPEAKER_02 36:17

So like when Austin officially retired, he didn't tell anybody he was retiring in that match against The Rock. He just went out there and retired and didn't make it known to the crowd. But it it was also a different time where where not everything was blasted on social media 24-7.

SPEAKER_00 36:36

Yeah. But I don't think the original intention was for him to retire in that match, though.

SPEAKER_02 36:41

What when he fought The Rock?

SPEAKER_00 36:42

Actually, wait, no, I'm I'm actually I'm way ahead of that. Never mind.

SPEAKER_02 36:47

Yeah. Um the retirement thing now, though, it's it's it seems like it's if you look at it's yes, partially money driven, and that's why they're doing retirement tours and such. But also, specifically in the Cena, AJ, and Brock section of that retirement, when you have those kind of guys that came in pretty much at the same exact time, yeah, you semi-expect them to go out around the same time.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

AJ started in 02 or 01, 02, right? AJ did.

SPEAKER_02 37:26

I mean he was in WCW when it died, he was doing indies before that. Right. But Cena started, he was talking about it on a podcast the other day, he started in the indies in like 95. Wow, I did not know that. But I see a potential problem in the future when they're bringing in these waves in NXT, whether this class comes in at the same time, then you potentially run into this problem later down the line if that class goes out at the same time.

unknown 37:52

True.

SPEAKER_01 37:53

That's if they're still gonna be around in WWE. I don't know. Just reusing the same storylines over and over again. It's like it doesn't feel special anymore. And especially with like I don't want to go off topic too much, but like with the whole like Cody being champion and Roman being champion, it's like we're seeing the same thing over and over again, and it just doesn't feel special anymore.

SPEAKER_02 38:20

And at least with in Brock's case with his retirement, by them doing the Goldberg one, the Cena one, the AJ one, when he came back, it was like alright, they at least swerved us a little bit because it seemed like it was gonna be a legit retirement, especi especially after those three legit ones in a row.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

Right. I just I just like I'm hoping if Brock does retire at SummerSlam, which has been which was been talked about for I think a little while now, if he does, hopefully he doesn't go back on it again, or they don't run a swerve on us again.

SPEAKER_00 38:56

Oh I mean no if the money's right.

SPEAKER_02 38:59

I was gonna say all it's gonna take is TKO to be like, hey man, come in and come in and fight this match as Saudi for ten million dollars, and I'll be right there.

SPEAKER_01 39:07

Yeah. They'll put him put him against Omos again.

SPEAKER_02 39:11

Who do you want me to squash? I'm in.

SPEAKER_01 39:16

But yeah, that was made basically made my rant. It wasn't much of it was about the retirement, it's also just the reuse of just the same old, same old stuff over and over again. And I like I like new things. I do like old, I like some old things that can be refurbished, but it's just it's like the spam use of a bunch of things, and I'm just want to see something new.

SPEAKER_02 39:38

I know a lot of people aren't happy with them rehashing the bloodline thing, but also if you look back for the last I'll say 10 years at this point, the only time they've been able to make newer stars or push newer stars up was using the bloodline as the fuel to do it. So I feel like because they don't know how to make new stars, they're defaulting back to that to try it again.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

But that's that's just terrible.

SPEAKER_02 40:04

It is they need to do better on the booking side. Their their exception right now is that Oba and Drick came up and clearly don't need the bloodline to get them over.

SPEAKER_03 40:13

No.

SPEAKER_02 40:14

But unless they they call the right people up at the right time that have legit fan backing to them, then they're like, okay, how do we get the next guy over? We're gonna have to run them through Roman or Seth or Cody or Punk to get them up there.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

That's uh the issue they're gonna have in the future, I feel like. They're gonna keep on having that issue.

SPEAKER_02 40:37

And eventually it's gonna switch over to to okay, now we have to run them through Braun and Oba to get them over.

SPEAKER_03 40:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:46

But I mean it's not it's it's not much different than back in the day where you had to run through Austin and Rock, or then you had to run through Triple H. Or it's it's a problem in wrestling and has been a problem for a long time.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

Well, if you look back, at least if it was Rock and Austin, man, they it was people were excited to see that.

SPEAKER_02 41:07

Yeah, but it was also back then everything was just chaos 24-7.

SPEAKER_03 41:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:12

Like there wasn't you could watch a two-hour raw, and people complain now about the lack of matches and the time that they have in matches. Like, you go watch a two-hour raw back then, there's maybe 20 minutes of matches and and 40 minutes of chaos.

SPEAKER_01 41:25

Well, I I'd rather see chaos than CM Punk and Roman hugging and kissing in the middle of the ring, but like, oh, see you at WrestleMania champ.

SPEAKER_00 41:32

Like, uh But but you also had like seven or eight matches a show.

SPEAKER_02 41:39

Yes, but they had like two-minute matches that got interfered in every single match.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

And I think and I think that's the balance that some people would prefer to have. It's like you go to a Raw and you see four matches, and they're like all singles matches, like, oh, I saw eight guys wrestle, right?

SPEAKER_02 41:58

Um you kind of get over the in-ring stuff by by seeing more people.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

Yeah, you see more people, but you're also more connected to the characters, too. Right? You don't feel like people are just kind of like thrown into segments and and matches and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 42:16

Yep, that's fair. I mean, I know I'm getting really invested in what Maxine Dupree's gonna do by seeing her in the background talking to Theory everyone. Like that's that's really making me wonder, oh, she's gonna be in the vision next. Hell yeah, that's really gonna do a lot.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

Right, right. Yeah, so I so I guess one of the main reasons that I do enjoy watching like dynamite and collision more is because it reminds me more of that old school style of the way that they are booking shows right now is because it feels a bit more chaotic. Uh, where like you don't know, like they announce all the matches ahead of time, so you know who's on the card, but you don't know who's gonna be in the next vignette or who's gonna be uh who's gonna interfere in the next match. It's I know there's just so many more working parts, uh, as opposed to where WWE kind of does their like, you know, open every show with a promo, uh close almost every show with a promo, right? Put some matches in between. It's like it's a formula that they've done so many times. It's like it's you know what's happening.

SPEAKER_02 43:34

Yeah. So the the the lack of unpredictability gets it's real old real fast.

SPEAKER_03 43:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:43

But then but then you also have the time where they do something unpredictable or not fully predictable, and people complain about that too.

SPEAKER_00 43:54

So like what?

SPEAKER_02 43:55

All right, Brock coming back. Oh, Brock? Yeah, just I'm just using that as an example. Everyone's like like, okay, Brock's gone, woo-hoo, or like in retirement. And then oh, here he comes in a surprise attack when you weren't expecting it. I wasn't expecting it. Especially at that that moment the way he did attack. And you go online and people are hating it.

SPEAKER_00 44:18

You know, you played up they played on people's emotions.

SPEAKER_02 44:21

Right. But I'm like, it's it's the fickleness of wrestling fans in general. And all of us are that way. We can really enjoy something one time and the next time we see it, we hate it. And it's I guess it just comes with the territory.

SPEAKER_00 44:37

Yeah. Plus, I think like no segment will ever make everybody happy. So and and I and I was just talking about this on like my body slam says thing, where when you hop into like a a break or a stream, and you think that you have like a large part of the market, but you really don't, right? If if 40 people hop into your stream, you have those 40 people that are online at that particular time that are interested in whatever you have at that time. There's a bunch of other people who are not interested in that, right? So when you look at wrestling and social media, the people that don't like it are going to voice their opinions on social media. But the people that like it probably are not because they enjoy it, right? Unless they just want to argue with people who don't like it, right? But who wants to argue all the time, right? But you're always gonna have that vocal like minority that's gonna sound like they're the majority, right?

SPEAKER_02 45:41

But then the the irony in that is that same vocal minority are still gonna tune in the next week and watch again.

SPEAKER_01 45:48

Yep, yes, even including myself.

SPEAKER_00 45:52

Yep, yeah. I mean we don't we don't hate wrestling, like we don't hate like the companies, we just don't agree with some of the things that they do. Like we like we love the talents, right? We still want to see people succeed. We just want some changes to be made or them to do some things differently, right?

SPEAKER_01 46:15

Like, like my uh one manager, he follows wrestling, kinda, not like I do, but he likes to make fun of me because he's he, you know, he he he's like 20 years older than me. He's probably like is like things like late 50s, so like 30 years older than me. And so he grew up in the 70s and 80s, and where he saw guys like Hulk Hogan and bigger guys, so he makes fun he would he would always have a comment to make, like Darby Allen couldn't lift two buckets of ice, and Darby Allen this, like yeah, and MJF is a good guy, but he would make a good intercontinental champion. Like he would because it's just not his cup of tea, but he still he does get some enjoyment from some of the current product, not a lot. Like he always liked to show me the botches and this and that, like oh, this is so bad, and but some people like what they like when it comes down to wrestling.

SPEAKER_02 47:08

And and that's the the argument some people have had with the tribalism thing. Watch what you like and don't watch what you don't. Like you don't have to hate on it all the time. I know I hate on AEW all the time, but also I think the best match I've seen all year was the Edge and Christian or Copen Christian versus FTR for the tag titles. I really, really enjoyed that despite not being a big AEW fan.

SPEAKER_01 47:35

I think that brought some nostalgia for sure too. I mean, they're obviously they're way past their prime, but still, man, and the nostalgia's there, like the story's there, it's it's just really cool. And the perfect matchup for them, the face FTR helps.

SPEAKER_02 47:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:53

Yeah, it just covers our uh three topics though that we uh brought in with us this week.

SPEAKER_00 47:57

Yeah. Short and sweet. That covers the first episode, and it only took us 50 minutes. We made really good time today.

SPEAKER_02 48:03

Absolutely. That's why this new format is the way to go.

SPEAKER_00 48:08

Absolutely. All right, well, in conclusion, you know, if you guys made it all the way to the end, right? Gold star for everybody. Uh, thanks for uh tuning in. We'll be back uh next Friday with three new topics for you guys. Anything else before we uh hop out for the day?

SPEAKER_01 48:25

Uh no, just to keep on uh listening to the podcast support. We're gonna be doing this every single week.

SPEAKER_00 48:33

Cool.

SPEAKER_01 48:33

As long as Ryan shows up. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 48:36

Yeah, as soon as Ryan shows up. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So on behalf of Shay, Brooks, Ryan, Three Stage to Marks podcast, and we are out.

SPEAKER_02 48:46

Later, Mark.