US vs International Fans and Is TNA Wrestling Dying Again?

In this week's episode the guys discuss US wrestling fans and how their reactions and expectations are different than international fans. From crowd reactions at live shows to internet reactions online. Also, TNA seems to be going through some major changes backstage as well. This seems to follow a historic pattern, but does it really change anything?

Thank you for listening to our podcast!

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:13

What's up, guys? Welcome to episode 23 of the three It is the market podcast. We're back once again. I'm Shay, of course, here with Ryan and Brooks. Guys, we're back. What's going on?

SPEAKER_00 0:27

What's up, everybody? Life, life, baseball, wrestling. That's what's going on.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

But isn't baseball and wrestling a part of life?

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Yes. But baseball has been a it's it's baseball season right now. I mean baseball and wrestling is life.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

There you go. There you go.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

So so we all have our uh our baseball teams. So Ryan is a fan of what team?

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Uh the Cleveland Guardians.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Brooks is a fan of what team?

SPEAKER_00 1:00

The New York Yankees.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

And I'm the only homer here, a fan of the terrible, terrible Orioles. But anyway, if you guys are new here, this is the Three Stages of Marks podcast, and the format is as followed. So we pick three topics. Uh one of us each chooses one topic for the week and we discuss that particular topic. So we don't necessarily cover weekly TV. Uh, we more or less cover an aspect of whatever's going on in the wrestling world at the particular time. So this week we are gonna start with uh Brooks because Brooks has a pretty cool topic. So I'll let you explain and you can go into it.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

All right, so we're gonna talk about the disconnect, it seems, between the live audience and the online audience. Um an example of what I'm saying by disconnect is how J. Uso always gets great reactions at the live shows, the crowds behind him, they eat, they do the whole nine yards, but online he gets mostly negative reactions. So we're gonna talk about why that is a thing, how that like happens for certain talents. Um so yeah, I guess we'll just start talking about why we think that happens. Uh specifically with Jay, I think the crowd is behind him at the live events because he's got the good music, he's got the yeet thing, that's something that they can interact with. Um online, I think for the most part, it's just fans or lack thereof fans that just want to find something to complain about for the most part.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

I I I have like the biggest I I probably know one of the biggest reasons why that is, because you see everyone that has an opinion like that, maybe if it's against J Uso, they're the ones that aren't going to the shows. They're not the biggest supporters of wrestling, in my opinion. They want to trash everything possible. But the ones that enjoy wrestling for what it is, for whatever's going on, they're showing up to the events, they're having fun. They're even if they're not probably the biggest fan of J Uso, but they're just they're there for the vibe. And like Shea, Shay was last night probably yeeting at Monday Night Raw. I'm pretty sure he was yeeting a little bit for J Uso, even if he's not the biggest J Uso fan.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

That's the was not.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

I was gonna say we sat through two days of WrestleMania with him a few years ago, and I don't think he ever reacted to anything.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

I'm I'm so Orange Casty about my wrestling. He is. Um, but but I think I think that the people who complain online are not current WWE uh mainstays. I think they are fans of either the Vince McMahon era or they're fans of a previous era in wrestling, and they're upset that somebody like a Jay Uso who doesn't fit that mold that they're used to is getting some shine. That's my thought.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Yeah, so I could see that, but at the same time, like how many people are going on YouTube, for example, and watching the videos of him winning his King of the Ring qualifier and then downliking it that don't at least keep up with the product and are fans of the semi-fans of the current product. Like at one point, like within 24 hours of the match, he had like 5,000 likes and 40,000 dislikes.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

And like I said, I think it's mostly just if it's not the person that they specifically want in that match to win, or because Jay is for the most part being booked to win matches, and it's not the person they are getting behind at that moment, then they're gonna start hating it.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

So those 40,000 dislikes did nothing uh to hurt those merch sales, though.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

No, sure didn't. But I mean, like if you look back, they were all all behind him heading into that rumble he won. And then he won the rumble, and they're like, oh, never mind.

SPEAKER_02 5:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

So they do the same thing, Cody's starting to get the heat online when the crowd, live crowd's still clearly behind him. Uh the complaints about the bloodline stuff online, about them rehashing that. Live crowd doesn't seem to be complaining. So it's it's I think the people that are like, I can sit behind my keyboard and complain, but I'm gonna enjoy it if I'm there in person.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

Oh yeah. Yeah, you you think part of it might be because uh because of the way that WWE books title reigns now, now that people have titles for the long term, it seems like regularly, and there's a lack of unpredictability there. Like that might be the reason that people get booed in certain positions, like Cody.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

That's definitely possible, but then there's the same those same people that are complaining about it, oh, this guy's had the title for this long and it's predictable, are the same ones that said, I want long-term storytelling. Like, yeah, yeah, like you can't have it both ways. The title can't flip-flop constantly, and also be a long-term story where you're gonna complain every step along the way of the story. Like the Cody Rock thing. Everyone complained, complained, complained, and then when it paid off, everyone's like, Oh, this was great. Like, well, then let them get to the end of the story before you complain.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

So, so I'm thinking back to like um I'm thinking back to like '99, right? With Stone Cold and Undertaker specifically, like the the ministry stuff, uh, with Stephanie and Vince and the higher power, like the higher power stuff was absolutely stupid. Um I didn't like that. Yeah, I didn't like that Vince revealed himself as the higher power, but the story between Austin Taker and then they incorporated Kane in there, like I felt like that was long-term storytelling, but with the belt going to multiple people.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

I mean, there's definitely a way to do that.

SPEAKER_02 7:28

But I think but I don't think that works in today's landscape.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

Overall, it seems like there's a group of fans that want the long-term storytelling, and then there's the the online media fans that are like, oh, I want a uh YouTube link or a TikTok link. You can only hold my attention for this amount of time, 30 seconds, 10 minutes, and then I want something new.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

Yeah, yeah, they want to run, they want to rush the storyline. You can't you can't read the end of the book, you can't go straight from the end of the book. You gotta it's they have the beginning, the middle, and the end. You gotta you gotta watch the whole thing progress. Like when we're watching wrestling, it's almost like we're watching an actual movie, but a long, a really long movie or an episodic series, like what wrestling is. It's a weekly show, and you gotta you gotta be locked in. You gotta just know what the hell's going on. You can't just expect things to just happen within 90 seconds.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

How long did the Grande Americano story last?

SPEAKER_00 8:30

Uh over a year.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

Yeah. You didn't see anybody complaining at the end of that one, did they?

SPEAKER_00 8:34

No. I honestly I I don't know if I said this last week or I don't know if said it, but I did say this is probably one of my favorite matches. And probably I was I was more invested in that than anything else in recent. I I love the match. That that had me connected for sure, especially the Mexican crowd, man. That Mexican crowd, they were connected on so many different levels with that.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

I guess the you don't really see the the Mexican crowds getting online and complaining about much. Yeah, it means mostly the US crowd.

SPEAKER_02 9:13

It's always the US crowd. I mean, yeah, you know, you know how we do. Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

Uh saying everybody's a fantasy booker, and I'm sure a lot of the when the Jay dislike at the Rumble was because they wanted Cena to win, and then the Jay dislike for the King of the Ring was because they wanted LA Knight to win, or Finn, or whoever. Let it play out, see what happens.

SPEAKER_02 9:36

I'm I'm still amazed how big the reaction was for the entire John Cena tour.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

Like the live crowd reaction?

SPEAKER_02 9:45

Just in general, like I didn't see hardly any negativity for John Cena on the entire farewell tour.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

No, they put all the negativity on Triple H booking.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

Oh, true. True. Like, even like the terrible heel turn, which I don't think was booking, I just think he just wounded up being a terrible heel.

unknown 10:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:07

You know.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

I wanna say his him trying to semi-retain the character he had while being a heel wasn't gonna work. I mean, he if he'd have gone back to like Fugonomics version of him and been a heel that way, he might have got made it work. Yeah, but that doesn't fit or wouldn't have fit the current plan that they had.

SPEAKER_02 10:32

Yeah, uh a new color t-shirt every month, something new to to push out there merch-wise. It's yeah. But so like outside of WWE though, do we see this type of reaction in any other company, whether it's AW, TNA, MLW, NDs, GCW, anything. Do fans react the same way anywhere else?

SPEAKER_00 10:59

Like at at events?

SPEAKER_02 11:01

Yeah, like when somebody's popular in person, but online people will just complain about the decisions that are made.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

Ooh.

SPEAKER_02 11:10

I I I can't think of anything.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

No, I I mean I think occasionally you'll see it with TNA, but it's only if it's like using Tessa Blanchard as an example, she was getting fairly good reactions for a little bit in TNA during this return, but the online was still just complete hate. That was for a completely different reason, obviously. Yeah, it wasn't wasn't the in-ring stuff that causing the hate. Um AEW, I don't really think, has that problem because uh the AEW fans are so diehard for the product that all they're gonna do is is back it online, and the hate that they're gonna get online are from the people that don't go to AEW shows because they don't care for it in the first place.

SPEAKER_02 11:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

That's more the tribalism on that side, and I guess we don't know if that online hate for Jay is actual WWE fans or if it is the tribalism playing into it. I mean, there's a chance that there's some tribalism to it, but it seems to be more of the WWE side of things.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

Right. And and at the end of the day, like if you have somebody who is connected with your live audience, right, because those are the people who really matter at the end of the day, because those are the people that are paying to go to shows and interact and stuff. And if the guys making the company money, like you have to reward those guys.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

Yeah. Could you imagine if in the 90s like the live crowd was like, Woo-hoo, Stone Cold, but they had the internet and went online and were like, Oh, this is like right. Or even go back 14 years, 13 years with the Daniel Bryan thing. Like the huge reactions he was getting. Imagine if they were online just complaining about it a week later. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

You have anything else on that topic?

SPEAKER_01 13:04

Uh I don't think so.

SPEAKER_02 13:06

No, you're good? Okay. All right, so I'm gonna hop in here uh because I wanted to talk about international audiences in today's uh wrestling world. So I was sitting here and I'm thinking about how WWE goes to all these different countries, and we have these like really cool audience moments and these chants and just the way that the fans interact. It's completely different from what we see here in the states, of course, because the states we get shows all the time, right? So we don't tend to react as heavily as international crowds, right? So it's kind of like adding this pizzazz that we weren't always used to because in the past, shows like Rebellion and Insurrection and whatever the uh Australian show was called, I can't remember what that was called, but we would only see them on DVD, like when they released, you know, on on like at video stores or FYE or wherever they used to sell like DVDs, so we would never even see those reactions until after, right? And we don't know if they were true reactions or if they you know piped in sound or stuff like that, but now we get to see these reactions live, and it's like, man, like these international audiences are like super connected to the product, and I'm sure they spend a lot of money on merchandise, and I don't know, it's just it adds so much to the product, in my opinion, and I think it's a very important thing today in wrestling. So I'm just thinking, like, we know like Canada has always been a huge market for wrestling, the UK has always been a huge market for wrestling, but they go on that they're going to Italy, France, Australia, Territory, Puerto Rico. Are there some other markets that you think they could be tapping into? And what do you think um about the international audiences?

SPEAKER_00 15:13

Uh those are some of my favorite shows to watch, is the is the international shows. Plus, it comes on earlier for us, which a lot of people complain about. But I don't mind like an evening uh wrestling show.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

But even if it's like even if it's like two o'clock in the afternoon and I miss it, then hey, I get to watch it commercial free later, even better.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:34

I can skip over the stuff I don't want to watch.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

But you but you like you were saying, like those fans are are dialed in, those some of the biggest crowds. I what I was one of the first things that pops to my mind is since some of those countries they probably get maybe like one or two shows, maybe a year or so. Those countries are massive. There's people flying in probably hours just to go to the show and they're spending all this money and they're hyped to go. They it's probably gonna be their first show they go to all year or even in a in a while. So people are spending money, they're there, they're gonna be they're gonna be the audience. They they're gonna show their reaction because they're they're freaking hyped, they're excited. Um you go to a uh gosh, talking too fast. Sorry guys. Um go to you you go to a United States show and you go to any other country for it for I guess we can just say DW, and you can definitely see the the differences for for the crowds.

SPEAKER_01 16:36

It makes sense too, because uh for years the international crowd that flooded WrestleMania would make the audience, you know, it would show so much liveliness compared to the other shows. Um and those events being overseas in those countries allows the people that can't afford to come over here for Armania to actually get in there. So it's even louder, and you don't have the Shays sitting there orange cassetting the whole show, you know, everyone's on their feet. So it's uh it's definitely it's gonna be great for the wrestlers for that reaction, and it's definitely good for us to see it. Uh, I guess the downside of it is when our US crowds try to mimic the chance and stuff and play it out so damn fast that it gets old.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

I I went to uh an AEW show a couple years ago down at the where the where the Panthers play in Miami, and these guys are sitting behind me, and they're kind of just like shit talking the whole entire time. And I'm like thinking to myself, I'm like, why are you guys just like you guys are here? You guys paid money to come here just to like dog on the wrestling and this and that. Like, they didn't I don't even think they even knew what the hell was going on because the way they were talking, they didn't even know any of the wrestlers, but they were just there. I'm not sure if they were seat fillers or not, but they're they're the ones like sitting there throughout most of the show and they're smack talking. It's like, why the hell are you even here? If that's the case.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

So you really showed them by spending your money to go to their event and they should talk and like sounds like they just needed something to do.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Because like it killed my vibe a little bit. I'm like, I'm enjoying myself, and that that was actually a good show. That was a good show because I got to see the debut of Roderick Strong in AEW. So I enjoyed myself at that show. But the guys behind me, it's like you're gonna be killing the vibe for the people who are there trying to enjoy the show.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

Yeah. I mean, I see even like I'm obviously not the biggest AEW fan, but I went to a couple shows, and the one I went to year before last, like I still enjoyed it and got into it. It was still live wrestling, so it was I'm not gonna sit there and and bitch the whole time or a whole show and not enjoy myself. What's the point of spending the money to do that?

SPEAKER_02 18:54

Yeah, I don't I don't think I've ever gone to a wrestling show that I thought was just outright terrible, like ever. I I I think I think live wrestling has it a charm to it, whether it's like the the bottom of the barrel, like indies, like even if you have terrible wrestling, you still can like joke and laugh at the performances, like it's just there's something about it that you really can't have a bad time unless something you know happens right outside of the wrestling, right? The atmosphere or something like that. But you just can't go wrong with live wrestling, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:36

When we went to Philly for WrestleMania 40, it didn't matter if it was the stadium for WrestleMania or the church that we saw the indie show in. It was still enjoyable. We still had a good show.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

But that was that was a good show, that was fun. It was also bigger indie companies, it was it was um revolve wrestling and someone else. They did a collab show.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Yeah, but still it we were in a stadium with what 70,000 people. I say, and then we were in a church with a hundred people, right? And and both shows were to me equally as entertaining, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 20:13

Um because I mean with the indie shows, like you're so much closer to the action, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:18

I mean, we were we had wrestlers falling in our laps and shoot.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

Right. Um, so one more thing on this topic. So look back on like ruthless aggression, right? Or look back to Attitude Era, or look back to Monday Night Wars, and US crowds were a lot hotter, right? Because they were more connected to the characters, because they were more not to say WWE's not character focused now, because they definitely are character-focused, but I feel like fans were a lot more in tune with the characters back then because they were a lot larger than life, more over the top. And I feel like the reactions from the old Rawls and SmackDowns or like the Nitros are kind of on par with a lot of the international crowds today. Would you say would you say that?

SPEAKER_01 21:18

Yeah, I'd agree. Okay, yeah, cool.

unknown 21:21

Cool.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

And part of that might be like kind of going back to the previous topic of the US audience gets to be the live audience and the online audience, and we're constantly flooded with wrestling, and we see it all day, every day. While the international can still see it all day, every day when they want or want to, but it's the rare moments that they get to see it in person.

SPEAKER_02 21:46

Yeah. That's fair. I agree with that.

SPEAKER_01 21:49

I mean, obviously the Monday Night Wars didn't have twenty four seven YouTube videos that you could watch.

SPEAKER_02 21:57

Why is the um then and this is just A random, like off-topic thing. So we all like SmackDown used to be a pre-recorded. So it was recorded on Tuesdays and then it went live. Well, it went on TV on Thursdays. But I remember going on to wwf.com like right before they changed to WWE, and you could see the spoilers ahead of time. And I was like, who the heck put the spoilers on the freaking wrestling website before the show even happened?

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Thanks, Russo.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

Alright. That's all I got. Ryan, you're up.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

So what what's going on in TNA right now, guys? So as of as of today, Tessa Blanchard just got released. Um couple about I think it was like last week or maybe almost two weeks ago, um, Steve Macklin got released. A lot of a lot of guys are being leaving the company or they're just not happy, but some like Steve Macklin's blaming Carlos Silva, who is the I guess the president of TNA or something like that. And people aren't liking his decisions with the company. I I think that TNA, every time TNA goes one step forward, they they take a couple steps back. They are keeping like I'm surprised guys like Moose is still there with the company. He's been so loyal with TNA. Um, and I know recently and uh NXT and TNA were doing something that kind of just like they finished it, but I I thought there was gonna be more with that that story between TNA and NXT. I don't know how much longer TNA's gonna be surviving. They're they're re-signing people to the people that they shouldn't be re- they they shouldn't be re-signing some of these people. They should be re-signing um Leon Slater and Mike Santana, who have been just been killing it, who are like apparently W has just been eyeing um for months now. Uh I know Teenage bringing guys like Ricky Sosa and they're apparently for uh Slamversary they're bringing back Amazing Red, which I thought he was just retire. Talk about WrestleMania 40 weekend, Amazing Red. Yeah, he said he's retiring that weekend, and two years later he's still wrestling, so I have no idea.

SPEAKER_01 24:23

Um wrestling retirements aren't real.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

But I'm looking at the slammiversary card, and it'll it looks solid, but it's like I'm seeing I feel like I'm seeing the same types of matches, I'm seeing the same guys. Uh like we're seeing Mike Santana versus Nick Nemeth in the main event for the TNA world title. Mind you, I think they botched Mike Santana originally winning the world title whenever when was it like bound for glory? And they kind of just like I don't know, it was something, man. Like they I forgot what event it was. Like Santana ended up losing, everyone thought he was gonna win. Um, I don't know, there's just a lot of a lot of choices they're making, and it's just not like we used to love TNA. TNA used to have stacked car like stacked rosters for such a long time. Looking at the roster right now, it doesn't look strong. They have a few guys that are that are holding their own. They have some guys that are putting over the younger talent, like the hardys are putting over the righteous, and um Bear Bronson is one of the younger guys in TNA. But what is really going on in TNA? Are we gonna be seeing TNA like last another year or so? Are they just gonna be holding on by a threat, or will WWE finally just purchase TNA?

SPEAKER_01 25:35

Ultimately, with TNA, it's the same problem they've always had. It comes down to money. Like Macklin has already said that they negotiated, they couldn't get close on price, so that's why he left. They're not gonna be able to keep Santana and Slater because they're both gonna sign with WWE for a lot more money than what TNA can offer. Um, like you were saying about the one step forward and then the step back, every time they take that step forward, it's all right, we're gonna add more money to production, or we're gonna go on the road more, we're gonna do these things that are gonna cost us money, and they're not gonna pay off. So then we have to be even stricter on our budget for the talent, which then costs us talent in the end. It's just a repeated pattern, and ultimately they'll do the same thing they've always done. They'll find younger indie talents that they can pay a lot less, but will get that TV exposure, and they'll kill it like Slater has been doing, and they'll build themselves back up again, and then they'll repeat the same steps all over again.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

Yeah, and it uh it kind of sucks. I've always been a fan of TNA. I've I've liked what they've done, but like I said, they're just every time they they do something good, they they screw it all up. It could just be the new president, and he's I I guess he wants to do things a certain way to make the current network happy or something like that. I have no idea. Um, you got any anything to chime in on this?

SPEAKER_02 27:03

TNA survives everything.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Yeah, like a cockroach, they can't die.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

Yeah, like they're they're not gonna go anywhere, even if they like trim down to the bare bones, like there's always talent out there, even if they're not like major talent, they're always gonna want some type of exposure. So you're never gonna run out of wrestlers, right? The TNA is always gonna find somebody who's willing to work, so they they're they're gonna survive, right?

SPEAKER_01 27:32

And the the blaming Carlos Silva, they blame Scott Damore, they blamed Dixie, they blamed Jeff Jarrett, and it ultimately each time was the whoever was funding it above them said, This is your hard budget, we're not giving you any more money.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

Well, that that's what thank you for bringing up Scott Damore because I that's what I was gonna mention is when I when I thought TNA Wrestling was coming back, like TNA and Scott Damore was leading the charge. I'm like, we're back, TNA's back, and they were back for a little bit, and then Scott Damore gets like released from the company. Yeah, and I'm like, well, what the hell? That was like I lost hope after that because Scott Damore came out and cut that badass promo. Like, we're back, TNA Wrestling's back, you know, we're we're gonna be doing it big. I'm like, okay, I believe him because Scott Damore, it made me feel it. He made me feel it. He his energy, everything. I'm like, okay, sweet, I'm gonna be watching more TNA, and now he was gone from the company, and now it's like they're going back to their old old ways again. And now guys like Moose and Eddie Edwards, like I praise you guys for being so loyal to TNA for all these years, and even uh Brian Myers, he's been loyal to TNA for years, too. You don't see those guys in the indies ever. They've been wrestling strictly for TNA for years, and I applaud you guys, but now it's like where does TNA go? And honestly, like you said, if they if they can half their roster, if it's to save money, and they they probably will. But TNA, until they can go in the right direction, I don't know if they'll be the same TNA that we thought they were going to be when uh Scott Damore announced Impact Wrestling was going back to TNA wrestling.

SPEAKER_01 29:16

Right. So first of all, the the three listed obviously are very loyal, but they do still wrestle indies fairly often. Umose, especially, does a lot of the World Series wrestling in Australia.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

Yeah, yeah. I did see something written with that. I think Eddie Edwards went this past trip too. Uh Myers does not as much indies as he used to, but he still is on the indie scene. Um I know he were or wrestles up in some indie out in West Virginia that he wrestles like at least a couple times a year. Um and then some obviously he was running his own indie promotion with CAP. So he's busy. But anyways, um the Scott Demore thing, he essentially worked out so well that he cost himself his job. He was able to take a company that was felt like it was dying again on a shoestring budget and make it feel important again and build it back up, and it got to that point where like, alright, we're where the company wants us to be, we can go it further than this. Let's get some more money in the budget. No, we're not doing that. Alright, well, I need this money to keep growing. Sorry, you're not getting it. Then he's released.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

Yeah, and then he started he started up Maple Leaf Pro again, and Maple Leaf Pro's are running solid shows, from what I've seen.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

You mean Canadian TNA?

SPEAKER_00 30:39

Yeah, pretty much Canadian TNA.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

And so when you look at the business side of TNA, though, like you see the decisions that they make with the talent and people are leaving and stuff like that. Booking may not be a hundred percent, but TNA used to always have solid booking, uh, somewhere down the road that seemed to change. I'm not sure what the reason is, but from the business side, I think TNA is way ahead of where they once were, right? Uh they're back on the road and doing live events, and they have uh a nationwide TV deal, and they are putting some butts in seats in some cities, right? Every show is not full, but they're doing bigger crowds than they've done in the past 10 years, I would say. So something's working.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

Yeah, it's again that same pattern though. Like the for a while on Spike TV it worked, and then it fell off. There was a TV deal before Spike that worked, and then it fell off. And it it keeps ultimately, like I said, it keeps coming back to money every time. They'll they'll be like, okay, we gotta keep some big names. This time it's the Hardy's, it's been staying at some point. It was you know, making sure Joe and AJ were paid at one point, and like we'll keep these names, and the rest of the talent will figure it out around them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

You know how TNA saves a lot of money, right? They will tape four weeks of tapings in one night or two nights. They'll go to like a town for two nights and tape four to five weeks of tapings.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

And so so they don't do that anymore. Uh nope, they do they do two weeks at a time now.

SPEAKER_00 32:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

I mean, what back in the day they used the impact zone and they would do it then. They'd tape four episodes. Sometimes they were taping like two months worth in a single trip. And they've always found a way to to uh uh uh keep the product running, whether the bills were getting paid or not is questionable.

SPEAKER_02 33:00

So let's say give it let's give it five years, because they've been on AMC for uh it's not it hasn't been a year yet, right? It's been maybe six months, I would say, roughly.

SPEAKER_01 33:12

Uh when in January, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:14

I want to say it was in January.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

Yeah, it's uh six months yesterday.

SPEAKER_02 33:19

So let's say they had a five-year deal. At the end of this five years, because five years from now would be six months from the start of their contract. Do you think that TNA is still on AMC? I would say no. Um but do they find another avenue?

SPEAKER_01 33:36

Yes, they always find another avenue.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

I mean, do they find another TV deal?

SPEAKER_01 33:42

Five years from now is finding a TV deal even going to be the right business move.

SPEAKER_02 33:47

Oh, you're right. Could be, could not be.

SPEAKER_01 33:50

I mean, streaming uh even YouTube at this point, we've seen other products push more and more on YouTube. So it may not be the the right thing to sign a TV deal.

SPEAKER_02 34:03

Well, it can't be a TNA plus, because it's terrible.

SPEAKER_01 34:06

Yeah. I mean, there's always at this point, it seems like like the streaming service bidding wars are gonna go higher and higher, even on lower end products, just to add that to their their catalog.

SPEAKER_02 34:22

Yeah, because AMC doesn't have anything else on TV.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

No. So that they're getting ready to put or do make a bigger push into the streaming side of things as well.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

Wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:37

Um I mean it's you never know. The way that the TV deal seems less and less important, especially with after WWE moved to Netflix. It uh seems to be a really good chance that the other wrestling companies follow suit.

SPEAKER_00 34:57

So I do want to put it out there there. I think they are still filming four weeks of content for across two days. Or four weeks of uh TV that TNA is because they they don't have they they don't have anything until Slammiversary. I'm looking at their tickets right now, and Slamversary is the 28th. This is the 16th. TNA doesn't have any tapings until the 28th, which is slam aviversary, and then after that it's they're doing two days of tapings, and then after that So they're doing two days of tapings July 1st and 2nd, and then after that they're not doing anything until the 30th, and then 31st. But they do do that to save money, I'm assuming. Yes. Which isn't a bit bad thing, but I feel like at some point you get a disconnect with some of the crowd, because I've been to some of the teenagers before in the past, and it gets tiring doing filming all of that in one night across two nights of of uh for wrestling, and I've been seeing pictures and stuff of their crowds, and I don't know if they're drawing that many. Maybe for a pay-per-view, like Slamiversary should draw a good crowd in Boston, and then I think they're doing lockdown in Chicago in August, which should really draw a sellout crowd for them, depending on how many tickets they sell, whatever you want to consider a sellout, because Chicago is a wrestling town.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

A sellout crowd for them is what two to three grand or yeah, two to three thousand people.

SPEAKER_00 36:29

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 36:31

So if so if they're doing four weeks of tapings, then that means that they're not running live impacts anymore.

SPEAKER_00 36:38

They're running live so the once every four weeks? Yes, they're running live once every four weeks.

SPEAKER_02 36:45

That's terrible.

SPEAKER_01 36:46

Yeah, especially especially when so much can change in those four weeks. Like imagine you have Santana on the card for four weeks, and he left at week two and went and signed with WWE, and he's on the like Well, it's it's funny, is so literally the four weeks of tapings after Slamiversary, none of them are none of them are live.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

Because they're taping on a Wednesday and a Thursday, which is weird. Um because normally most of our tapings are like Thursday, Friday, or something. So none of those are gonna be live. And then they're doing the following tapings. The first one is live. They're doing Thursday live, July 30th. That one will be a live TNA. And then yeah, they're just it's just they're doing like one live taping, yeah. But the the the tapings after anniversary won't be live, none of them will be live.

SPEAKER_01 37:47

Like I said, it's the same pattern that they've gone through for 20 some years. I guess it's what 25 years at this point.

SPEAKER_02 37:55

Because what CNA started in what 01 or 02? 02. I want to say. Yeah, I mean it's 25 years, basically.

SPEAKER_01 38:05

So overall, like you would you would have thought when like the when they made their debut on AMC that that would have helped push things further along all the way around, production-wise, talent-wise, money-wise, and even the debate debut episode was a bit of a flop. It wasn't very exciting.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

And then what the the couple weeks after that were much better. I'm like, why weren't those your debut?

SPEAKER_02 38:34

Yeah, thanks, Tommy Dreamer.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

Yeah. I think Dreamer is leading the creative at this point.

SPEAKER_02 38:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

Dreamer and I I think Eric Young is part of the creative team now.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

I don't know. I know Tommy Dreamer is. I don't know much about but about what's going on behind the scenes in TNA right now. It's changing constantly, I feels like.

SPEAKER_01 38:57

Uh Delirious is still considered the head of creative.

SPEAKER_00 39:02

In TNA? Yeah. Wasn't Delirious in uh Lucha Underway?

SPEAKER_01 39:07

He was Ring of Honor for a long time.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

Yeah, but wasn't he in Lucha Underground?

SPEAKER_01 39:12

Might have been. Um guy with the mask. I don't see He's an ROH guy. Yeah, he was an ROH guy. I don't see him listening to the guy.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

Oh, I'm thinking of somebody else. I'm thinking of somebody else then.

SPEAKER_01 39:25

Yeah, he was Ring of Honor for almost 20 years. Wow. And then a couple stints with TNA in between, and MLW stint back to TNA.

SPEAKER_00 39:38

Ah, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

Anything else, Ryan?

SPEAKER_00 39:43

No. We got we got we got some big shows coming up for slamversary. We got king and queen of the ring coming up for some big shows. Got a lot of wrestling coming up.

SPEAKER_01 39:56

There's always a lot of wrestling coming up.

SPEAKER_02 39:58

Right. It never stops.

SPEAKER_01 39:59

It never ends.

SPEAKER_02 40:02

Alright, guys. So I think we're gonna wrap it up for this week. Thank you guys for watching. As always, we appreciate you. Somebody else cut us out today. I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

SPEAKER_01 40:18

I have look, I'm like Billy Gunn. I have my one line at the end, okay?

SPEAKER_02 40:24

So on behalf of Jay, Brooks, Ryan, Free Stays to Marks podcast, we are out for the week.