Future Stars, Overexposure & Road Doggs Creative Juice?

In this week's episode, the guys choose three new topics for discussion led by the future stars of wrestling. Who are the next up and coming stars in the wrestling world? We then discuss the idea that Road Dogg may be coming to TNA to take over booking duties. Is he a good choice? And last topic covers overexposure in wrestling. Is there a such thing as a wrestler being overexposed? Let's discuss!

Thank you for listening to our podcast!

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:10

What's up guys? Welcome back to the Free State of Market podcast. I'm Jay. I have Ryan here. I have Brooks here. Three guys. We're back. How you guys doing this week?

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Doing great. Because after uh after we finish recording this, I'm going on vacation for about five days to go see the fam. So it's great. I technically am on vacation.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

Bye. Good rides.

SPEAKER_05 0:37

Well, good to hear everybody's doing well. But this is uh this is episode 24 of the podcast. And if you guys are not aware of the format, we all pick one topic to discuss per week. We all bring a single topic, or we don't cover the the weekly happenings on television. We just try to keep it you know nice, easy to the point. And we're gonna get right into the nitty-gritty. And Ryan, I think you're up first this week. What is your topic?

SPEAKER_01 1:14

What are some of the future faces in wrestling? It could be for any promotion. I have I have a list of guys. I don't even have to like I didn't have to write any of this down. I know so many. I mean, the pat we've seen so many retirements recently with between AJ, Cena, um, and with more to come possibly in the future. So who is gonna be the next John Cena, the next possible undertaker on this? Obviously, we can't, you know, replicate those guys' careers, but Cena's stuck around for 20 years. He's at the top of this game. Um, there's a lot of talent down and evolve right now that I've been getting my eye on. Um I think Shay knows Marcus Mathers. I think he's not he's not a big guy. Like muscle, physique, he's not big, but I think he eventually he can have that role where he's gonna have the crowd on his side like an underdog type of guy. Marcus Mathers, who was wrestling in GCW and he's for a really long time, finally getting signed by Didaby into some into some capacity, and now he's been wrestling on Evolve. I don't think he's wrestled on NXT yet. I'm really out of the loop on NXT. I'm not sure if there's any guys. I I can list more guys, but I'm not sure if you guys have anyone that could possibly be the future of pro wrestling.

SPEAKER_05 2:34

What did Triple H say? He said there is no next John Cena.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

Right. But the next John Cena trying to find guys that are gonna be carrying the to pick up where Cena left off. You like you can't these guys need to help help carry this wrestling industry, man. Seth Rollins was breaking literally breaking his back for the per for the for W.

SPEAKER_05 3:02

So there they're so okay. So so saying like find the next John Cena is filling like some like humongous shoes.

unknown 3:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:12

So I don't know. I don't know if we should be saying who's gonna be the next John Cena versus saying like who can help carry wrestling into the future. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 3:28

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's it's that's a different that's a different conversation than who's gonna be the next John Cena.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Right.

SPEAKER_05 3:41

But while we're here, who is the next John Cena? Is it Braun Breaker? No, it's not Braun Breaker. I don't think it's Braun Breaker. I don't think he's the next John Cena. Hey, I'm cool with that. I'm cool with that. Hmm. I don't know. Like, I think Oba Femi's the next Brock Lesnar. Yeah, I don't think he's the next John Cena, but like who is carrying wrestling going forward? Like it it's it's tough. There like nobody right now is connecting to the audience on a on a John Cena level right now. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Here's a dark horse because it just it just hit me when you said carrying the crowd. I think Al Grande Americano. Now, probably not on the WWE side, but the triple A side has something going for him. Yeah, that's not the same.

SPEAKER_05 4:35

Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I don't have anybody right now that I can say is I kind of think that uh uh the connection Trick is getting with the crowd is kind of like early Cena, like the rapper era Cena.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

But there's still a long way to go from there.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

Yeah I think it's on the right track. I I've I've become a fan more fan of a trick of Trick now than I was when I was when I when I was like watching him being still being a fan of what he was doing and me already knowing he was gonna break out on his own well over Melo, even though Melo at one point was him, now we haven't really seen him. But now you looking at Trick, it's like damn Trick was actually him this whole time.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

I mean I said that Trick was the Marty Gennetti of the group in NXT, so I was wrong.

SPEAKER_05 5:31

Yeah, like like looking at the top guys from like the the past couple decades, like if you look at Austin, like of course, people like the persona that Austin had, but at the same time, they just wanted to see Austin go in there and just beat guys up, right? And then you pass the torch to to John Cena. John Cena wasn't the greatest in ring wrestler, neither was Hogan, but he knew how to carry a match, right? And then Roman Reigns, move the Roman Reigns, Roman Reigns knows how to carry a match. Same same thing, right? I think he's better in the ring of John Cena for sure. Um, not the best talker, but he knows how to carry a match. He knows how to add drama to a match. I think that's the key for a lot of these like younger guys. It's like, can they carry a crowd through a match? That's one thing I don't see that Trick does well yet. Like he's great persona-wise, he has like the crowd behind him, he has a catchphrase, theme song, all that stuff. But the the in-ring part is missing for me, and that's what keeps him out of that conversation for me right now. But he can get there.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

He's got more than five moves.

SPEAKER_05 6:52

Does he though?

SPEAKER_00 6:54

No, no. He showed later in his career that he could wrestle, but for what over a decade, all he needed was five moves.

SPEAKER_05 7:03

Yeah, that's true. That's true. But I'm sorry, back to the original question: who are the future faces of wrestling, not who the next John Cena is. Like who are the young guys that we need to keep our eyes on that could do some really big things in wrestling?

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Be before we we hit record, Brooks did mention Leon Slater, which I think has a really strong, bright future. So then uh he was even handpicked by Cena for his final show, right? He was handpicked by Cena?

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Yeah, that that just says a lot right there on its own.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

You know, it this would be an interesting subject to revisit after the Cena classic stuff happens to see if if he pulls in younger guys for the tournament. Because if so, then you would think those are the guys that he feels are gonna help lead the way.

SPEAKER_04 7:55

That's true. I mean, think about that part.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

I mean, there's the obvious ones are breaker and oba and trick, but you know, the outside of the obvious is where the big question is at this point.

SPEAKER_05 8:07

Because I mean, like looking at like the TNA roster, I mean, I don't see, and it's all in the booking, right? And the way that they portray their their wrestlers, I don't see anybody over there right now in that capacity outside of Slater.

unknown 8:23

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Yep. I was saying AEW and Nick Wayne, I guess, has a chance. Kevin Knight.

SPEAKER_01 8:30

Yeah, Kevin Knight for sure. Uh what? I think I think Kevin Knight has I mean I've always liked like I've always liked Mike Bailey. But I don't I don't know. Like I've like been falling a little bit below for for Mike Bailey and kind of more high up on Kevin Knight, if you want to think about that. I don't but um you said Zilla.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Yeah, I say Zilla has the chance as an indie guy at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

Um he just won like a championship last night or the night before for some promotion, still winning championships.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

I know he's a little more established at this point, but Takeshta, I feel like he's gonna be a face for a long, long time.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Is he yeah, he's still pretty young, right? He's 31.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

Yeah, so he's still got at least 15 years in him. I can only imagine.

SPEAKER_05 9:26

And I wonder what happens when aw actually does give the keys to Kyle Fletcher as well. But I like Kyle Fletcher, I do. There is something for me that is missing still, and I can't put my I can't put my finger on it exactly, but there's there's something missing there for me, and I don't know what's gonna connect the dots for me. Maybe after he wins his first title, and then I see him in that position, maybe, but when I see him like in title programs, I'm kind of like eh, I'm not feeling it. I don't know. I don't know what it is though.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Yeah, I do I do like Kyle Fletcher, he's a little bit younger than too. He's twenty he's only 27. God. He still has so much more time to to even grow. I don't even think he's hit peak, even though he's kinda he kind of peaked last year after his matchup with uh Will Ospreay. By the way, if you haven't seen it, go watch that. That was beautiful, beautiful cinema, as the kids like to call it these days.

SPEAKER_05 10:34

You know, everybody can't be L clone out there.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 10:39

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

Isn't isn't isn't he L injured?

SPEAKER_05 10:42

So wait, I thought I saw him on Collision last week when they were picking the uh or or dynamite when they were picking was it collision when they picked the team members for the 12 man cage match?

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Uh yes.

SPEAKER_05 11:01

Wasn't that him in the background? I'm pretty sure it was.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

I don't remember. I don't remember who all got picked for that.

SPEAKER_05 11:08

Um you know who got picked. All the normal guys got picked. Nobody surprising got picked.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Um oh, so L clone didn't get picked, but he was there in the background. Oh, I don't remember that segment. The only thing I remember is like Kevin Knight being there and stuff. I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 11:24

Yeah, it was like the very first segment of the show, the opening segment of the show.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

Give it a few more years until negative one is wrestling full-time.

SPEAKER_05 11:35

True. True.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

There we go. My bad. My bad shot.

SPEAKER_05 11:41

What happened?

SPEAKER_01 11:42

I fat fingered.

SPEAKER_05 11:44

Oh. We didn't even notice you were gone. Nope.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

It was an inc where I just saw it and I just hit oh end call.

SPEAKER_05 11:51

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

It was a n it was a nice five seconds without you though.

SPEAKER_05 11:55

Oh who else you got?

SPEAKER_01 11:58

Who else do I got? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

You said you had a list. I'm intrigued.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

Are you guys familiar with Mance Warner on the indie scenes? Yes. I think with his character, you don't like he's got like that redneck, badass, like hardcore hillbilly character. And I I don't know, I'm always looking for unique different characters. So I gotta throw out Mance Warner out there. Even though he's still he's actually on a crazy indie run right now. He's wrestling in all these un other promotions. I think he's like um was the he's like the indie champion or something like that, whatever, whatever it is. There's like a title like the indie championship or something like that. He's the current champion. Um I I I take a lot of I I I notice when wrestlers are kind of just trying to get their name out there and trying to like wrestle for promotion. And I I'm pretty sure he's still young too. And uh even though he recently just left TNA, I guess on some bad terms, um, I still think he's got a potential massive future in the wrestling business and with his gimmick it'll be different and unique, and that's and it might intrigue the people. Like look at Danhausen, for example. He's got the silliest gimmick in pro wrestling, and it's the most over thing in the world.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

Then Mance has gotten a couple Ring of Honor matches lately.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

Yeah, he's been yeah, he's been getting booked for Ring of Honor. Um, he's he hasn't even been doing G CW as much because he's getting booked all over. I I follow his uh page on Facebook and he's like, got booked here, come see Manser this weekend, this and that, and I'm like, so he's not even wrestling for G CW right now, he's wrestling for everywhere else because he's trying to make a name.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

You know why though, right? Why what? Because he and his wife are mentored by Matt Cardono. They got the indie playbook written for them.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

Um another one I've always been a fan of is Effie. I think I know I I know Shay loves Effie.

SPEAKER_04 14:10

I do?

SPEAKER_01 14:12

Yeah, man. We all love Effie.

SPEAKER_04 14:14

Oh he's not gonna be anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

Uh you don't think he's gonna main event anywhere?

SPEAKER_00 14:19

I don't know. GCW is his cat.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

I mean he might have peaked in GCW, but dude, like he he got he got over heavily. I don't know if he could peak outside of that. Not heavily enough. And I was trying to get a female out there, but I don't really I can't really think of any female women's wrestlers that I would like I'm in like I'm interested in right now. Especially like either on the indie scene or like someone who is and l yeah, what's her name? She was um she's in TNA right now. Who was she went by like Zia Lee in W. What's her name in TNA right now? I think maybe her. That might be like a like a dark horse, but yeah, something like that. I think she works really well, and I think like she's had some interesting characters in the past, and because she had like that dark character, right? In NXT with like with like um Dante Chen or something. Yeah, tempered out tempered out with that.

SPEAKER_04 15:24

She did?

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Yeah. It was like Dante Chen was like all dark and stuff too, or whatever it was. I don't know. It was so it was a weird, it was during like COVID or something.

SPEAKER_05 15:34

I just remember Boa.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

Boa. Is Boa and Dante Chen the same guy?

SPEAKER_05 15:39

No, they're not.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Oh maybe it was Boa.

SPEAKER_05 15:43

And that wasn't that wasn't uh that wasn't uh what's her name? Darn it, I forgot her name too.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

Anywho, the the chick Zyali, she's in TNA right now, as whatever name you just said, Shay, but I I think she is uh one of the few women I could probably include in this list. I don't really see anyone else that is consistent enough that is in the younger demographic that is consistent enough. I mean I'm do I do like uh uh Maya World, who's wrestling in AEW right now.

SPEAKER_04 16:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

I think she just got a huge upset over um oh my gosh, who did she just wrestle? I'm not tapped in right now with uh.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

By the way, Zaya Lee was with Boa in that dark thing with uh Wendy Choo with the Wendy Choo. Yeah, Wendy was the master of the group over over those two. Yeah, they were her wackies. Uh Kendall Grey.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

Kendall Gray is a lot of people are are are uh like invested in Kendall Gray. I don't know. I don't see it.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

I said WWE already thinks she's gonna be in-ring-wise their female Kurt Angle.

SPEAKER_05 17:02

Alrighty then.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Yeah. That's that's saying a lot.

SPEAKER_05 17:06

I mean, I see the fundamentals. I see it. I see it.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

I I might have to watch more of her. I might have to start watching some NXT again. I'm I might have to watch some more of her matches to like really be invested. But it's like I think can I I feel like Kendall Gray just randomly popped it and over. Like I know she was down at Evolve, I think she was like Evolve women's champion for a little bit, and then she just popped up on NXT, and I guess I just haven't seen enough of that. But you want to throw Kendall Gray in the hat? Let's run it. Um I think uh no the other chick that's in TNA too, Zia Brookside. She, I feel like never even really got a chance. Because she was like an NXT UK or something. I'm not sure if she had much of a chance, but I think she started wrestling super young.

SPEAKER_05 17:49

Isn't she rushing for the title at Slamversary?

SPEAKER_01 17:53

No.

SPEAKER_05 17:54

Zaya Brookside's on the Slammiversary card, I'm pretty sure.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

I against um yeah, I against um what the chick we were just talking about.

SPEAKER_05 18:07

Yeah, for the Xia Little Knockout's title. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

Is it is it for the knockout? Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05 18:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Ah, okay. So that is maybe a match. Yeah. So that may be a match to watch at Slamiversary. Actually, that's coming up this weekend. As of this recording, that's coming up this weekend.

SPEAKER_05 18:26

Everything's coming up this weekend.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

Yeah, we have a lot of coming up, a lot of wrestling coming up. What do you guys think about the righteous? Have they just not no?

SPEAKER_00 18:36

No. They've been around long enough, and it's not working. I mean, it's working, but it's not it's they're not gonna get any higher than they are right now.

SPEAKER_05 18:44

Yeah, it it had its potential to hit the next level, but then it was like it kind of stalled out.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

It does suck though, because weren't they supposed to go to NXT at one point and be with like Bray Wyatt or something like that?

SPEAKER_05 18:59

There was like they were coming. Yeah, that's the story at least.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

Just imagine what could have happened if cer certain things panned out. There was reasons why they didn't pan out. I am liking uh Ricky Sosa as well. I see he I would put him right next to Leon Slater. I am I am Already? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

I mean I don't think he's on Slater's level right now, but he's working too.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

I don't I don't think he's oh okay, let me refer to that I don't think he's on his level, but I think he's working. I he uh he can definitely be up there because he he's young, he's got he's got stuff to work at all his teams, so I think that's why that's why he's been he's been feuding with Eric Young lately, because I'm Eric Young probably wants to work with the young kid, get him over at Slamversary. It is it is odd to see Ricky Sosa not wrestling in in that Ultimate X match because there is a like the talent in that match is pretty nuts already. Um I know we're not trying to talk about Slamversary, but that match is speaking of young talent, there's a lot of young talent in that match with Leon Slater and um Casey Navarro as well. A couple other guys. But I don't wanna keep on talking about these other guys. Um we could be here literally all day about everyone else in this list I have of up-and-coming talent. Possibly some of the future star or future wrestlers to be looking out on. Um is there anyone else you guys want to mention before we uh move on to one y'all topics?

SPEAKER_04 20:29

Uh I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

I'm good.

SPEAKER_04 20:33

Yeah, I think I'm good there. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

So I was gonna say since we are talking about TNA, we can talk about uh Brooks topic and go right into that.

SPEAKER_00 20:43

Oh me? My topic now? Alright, let's talk about uh kind of a follow-up of a topic from last week of what's going on with TNA, but more specifically, Road Dog seemingly coming into TNA's creative team. Uh just want to kind of see what everybody or how everybody feels about that. I kind of already know where Shay's gonna go. So uh I'll let Shay go ahead and and tell me his feelings on that.

SPEAKER_05 21:11

Do you though?

SPEAKER_00 21:14

I mean I feel like I have a good idea. I mean I mean, nine times out of ten when road dog and creative are brought up, we get ugh road dog.

SPEAKER_05 21:23

So yes, that is typically my go-to response is like puke, it's road dog again, suck up. But when comparing road dog to Tommy Dreamer, I would I would probably go road dog probably nine times out of ten. So I think him going over to TNA and taking over their booking might be a good thing, actually. Cause I he he's kinda gonna bring like a big company booking feel to TNA, which is something that they've been lacking for A very long time because I don't know what they've been doing the last 10 years or so. But I think Rodg can come in and uh put some depth behind these characters and actually make something out of what he's given. I mean, I'm willing to give him a chance. I think it's it would be a solid option, a solid choice, personally. So surprise.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

Uh I agree. I think especially watching Unreal and seeing him pitch things in the way the creative team immediately just kind of shut him down. I think watching that he showed that he cares about the talent. Like he fought for underutilized talent. So if he's in a position where he's not going to get shut down immediately, he might make a difference and actually help their creative process. I don't s as long as he's not writing the show, you know, he can book the show without writing the show, then I think it'll be alright. Ryan?

SPEAKER_01 23:00

As much as I I do like Tommy Dreamer, but since with the way TNA's been going, and we did talk about this last week, they're literally in a cycle, and whatever they can do to help break this cycle, whether it's bring someone new into creative like Road Dog, who's been there, done that, I mean, honestly give it a chance. Sometimes people don't like change, but sometimes change is new. You want to change your diaper every once in a while, right, guys? So let's bring someone new to creative. Let's wish for those. Let's hope for the best. So I'm hoping this will uh get teen lif lift team up a little bit and get things rolling for him.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Speaking of which, Ryan, you're due to change yours. Okay. Um the the part of it that I keep thinking about is is he can come in and be like these talents that don't want to stay in TNA, that are using it as a stepping stone, he's got that aspect of do this. If you do this, this is what WWE is looking for. I know I've been on the creative team for fucking ever. We can help you get to that stepping stone, or could you or help you get to that next level using this as a stepping stone? He knows what for the most part, an idea of what TV stations or the TV product needs to be to stay on air, keep getting these contracts. So that helps. It's also kind of funny to me that he leaves WWE and goes to TNA, where he or where they have a partnership with WWE, and now you just have the click even more controlling wrestling. Trips on the main roster, Sean and XT, Roadog at TNA. They just need to bring Billy back and get give him something to do.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Or if you want to run it all, if you want to include Taker, because I think you will let's all agree. Taker is part of it. He's a part of the clique. Whether you guys believe it or not, he's a part of it. He definitely is.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

The the modern version of the clique.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

The modern click, yeah. No, well we'll we'll see what TNA's got cooking for Slamversary, because I mean that's gonna be their big thing, and then I I'm I'm really gonna judge TNA at Bound for Glory. Because that's gonna be their second biggest show of the year.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

They got a former WWE champion coming in at Slamiversary. They're they're already booking like they did 10 years ago. Let's get a surprise X WWE guy to show up at our pay-per-view.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

But who who's gonna be who's that gonna be?

SPEAKER_00 25:30

They haven't made it clear yet. Watch it be like Strowman or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 25:35

Oh my god, please don't. Let Stroman do his thing on the USA network.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

And and XWE champion. They didn't specify which championship. It could be a good one. Yeah, no, they never do.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

They never do. But I mean, hey, if Braun Strowman goes to TNA, I mean Braun Strowman's always been for the kids. And you want to talk about people always been like getting that crowd reaction? Braun Strowman did his best on getting a good crowd reaction, especially for the kids and everyone else.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't be against them coming into TNA for a like three, four-month run.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

And then leaving.

SPEAKER_01 26:13

Well, we talked about that a few weeks ago about talent coming in somewhere for a couple months, signing a short-term contract, getting a feud or two or two in, and wouldn't be a bad idea.

SPEAKER_05 26:24

So how how long was Tommy Dreamer in charge of TNA booking?

SPEAKER_00 26:29

I want to say like ten years. Yeah, I would say he was there at this time at least ten years.

SPEAKER_05 26:35

Because I read something that Eric Bischoff said recently about Tommy Dreamer and how Tommy Dreamer had like a lack of like TV exposure from a booking perspective. And I'm like, well, he's been in the job for years now. So if he didn't figure it out in the first year or two, then I would assume that he would have gotten ousted and somebody else would have came in. I don't think Tommy Dreamer did a terrible job booking TNA, but Eric Bischoff made it seem like you know, Road Dog is this great option. Tommy Dreamer was in over his head, and I don't know. I didn't I didn't like how he he explained it personally.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

We also don't know like how long he actually was in charge of booking there.

SPEAKER_04 27:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

Uh how long has it been since um Demore left?

SPEAKER_01 27:37

So I'm I'm you can Google anything these days. So so Dreamer spent nearly a decade on uh with TNA's creative team. So he was the first hit was in 2010, so I'm assuming that's when EV 2.0 and stuff like that all came to the company. 2010 was when everyone came to the company. So he was trained to do a backstage and creative role between starting in 2010 and it ended in 2015, and then he returned to the company in 2018, serving as both a producer and a key member of the creative team.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

And then took over Creative in 24 when Damore was released. Uh so he he wasn't running creative, but for only two years, he was in the road dog role.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

But something we haven't mentioned is Delirious, I guess, is getting that head roll, but we don't know. It was just like rumored, and we'll see like what happens if road dog gets announced for creative or not. Or but delirious did get moved up, because I guess he was still part of the creative role as well, so I'm assuming he's getting bumped up into creative, or he's taking dreamer spot, or whatever's gonna happen. But we can also see a pattern. So then since Scott Damore did get released or whatever, creative did go downhill a little bit after that. I think Scott Demore had a big had a big, you know, was a big key prior.

SPEAKER_05 29:02

I I think Delirious could be interim, right? If they move him up, since he's already there, right? He understands how everything works, so before they bring anybody else in, they can just, you know, lateral move, slide him in for now until they determine who that next person is gonna be, and then kind of have that person maybe I'm not not to say shadow him, like road dog needs to shadow anybody, but to understand how TNA works, right? I mean, I would bring somebody in and just have them kind of get acclimated first before they just come in and just make all these sweeping changes, but that's just me.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Yeah, that's fair. Well, I mean, at this point, there's I feel like there's that in-between of do you want to to have somebody that knows how TNA works, or do you want to overhaul it again? Like, what does Anthem actually want?

SPEAKER_05 29:54

Well, I mean, doesn't seem like Anthem knows hardly anything because it seems to be going in circles here.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

So Right. But Delirious helped run Creative for Ring of Honor for shit almost 20 years. So it's not like he's new to to running creative.

SPEAKER_04 30:17

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

And I mean, during his time helping run creative, he uh Ring of Honor wasn't bad. I mean it wasn't a great like wasn't gonna reach a TNA level, but it wasn't bad either. I could see Road Dog coming in. I mean, I guess Tommy Dreamer should have known also because he was a producer and part of Creative in WWE, but I could see Dr or Road Dog coming in now and being like, this is how things go in WWE creative in modern times. So this is how we're gonna or how we should do things to try to improve at least the ratings or improve the money coming in, something. So let's all turn our computers on and open chat GPT and give it a list of names and let's book it.

SPEAKER_04 31:05

Yeah. That's funny.

SPEAKER_01 31:08

Say what you want about ChatGPT, but I be I be in with some interesting conversations with ChatGPT, and honestly, they go into in-depth. It's weird.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

But sometimes it's sometimes it's useful, but it can't feel, so it's not gonna be able to to accurately book making a crowd feel some type of way.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

That's also true.

SPEAKER_05 31:32

Brooks, do you have anything else on your topic?

SPEAKER_00 31:35

Uh no, at this point I feel like it's kind of a wait and see, see what uh what road dog does, and possibly revisit it in the future. We may be having a topic of did road dog help or hurt DNA creative?

SPEAKER_05 31:49

Who I'll have something to say about that. No, I'm kidding. Oh, I'm gonna go.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

How about we how about we follow that up in October after Bound for Glory? I have some feelings again. Because we're at we're at slamaversary. The second biggest pay-per-view is Bound for Glory. So I've got four months.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

Four months of creative right, gotta at least give it enough time to cycle through the current stories and then see what follows up.

SPEAKER_05 32:20

Alright. Final topic of the day. So I want to know if there is a such thing as overexposure in wrestling. And I guess the example of overexposure, we can we can look at it from two different ends of the spectrum. The bloodline being one idea of overexposure, um, because you have so many members of the bloodline, they're in multiple segments every week, the crowd loves them, they sell merchandise, but all but you have fans that are like, eh, it's the same old thing. Uh we're we're tired of them, they need to push some new people, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So then you hop over to the AEW side of things, and you have like the Death Riders, John Moxley, you have like the Don Callis family, who has like, you know, two housefuls of wrestlers in it, right? And Don Callis is always in the middle, and all these people that are part of the group, and none of them, well not none of them, but like half of them are like lower end wrestlers who don't do a whole lot, but they just are always happen to be there, right? So I think it's two ends of the overexposure spectrum, but is that really overexposure if the people like it, enjoy it?

SPEAKER_01 33:56

So that's like a that's like a I mean, yes and no. I mean, if it's something over it's just like they're just shoving it down our throat, like you said, the like the bloodline. A lot of us are probably sick of the bloodline at this point because it's in every segment and we're kind of just wanting something new, but when it I I don't know, when it comes with AEW and the Don Callis family, I think like from just using that as an example, I'm not over the Don Callis family. I feel like they utilize I you they utilize them a lot, they use utilizing them often, but I don't I don't get tired of seeing them for some reason. Yeah, I know I at this point I think it's like a gag, just if there was somebody in the damn Don Callis family. Like, oh you're you're new, you come to AEW? Yeah, we're just gonna put you with Don Callis and the rest of the goon squad just to you know for for the marks to be happy or some of those people like, oh what the hell? Just adding them to Don Callis family. But I don't get tired of seeing that because I think they're just since you have so much talent to utilize, I don't even think people even notice. Because that faction is kind of big.

SPEAKER_05 35:00

Oh, they notice. It's like whenever they want to get somebody over that can't speak, they go to Don Callis.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

But ultimately the question here was is there such a thing as overexposure in wrestling? Yes. Uh Sammy Zayn a couple years ago. Or not even a couple years ago, last year, before he started doing this heel turn, and people were sick and tired of him being on TV because they saw him all the time. Back in the early 2000s, X Pac Heat, everyone wanted him to go away because they were tired of seeing him. He was on the TV too much. See, no, I I I never understood the X Pac Heat though. Um I didn't either, I didn't have a problem with it, but there were fans that got sick and tired of it to the point that there's literally a term named for it. So, yes, overexposure can be too much.

SPEAKER_03 35:58

Because I was I didn't see him on TV any more than Stone Cold Steve Austin.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

Yeah, but people like Stone Cold.

SPEAKER_03 36:05

I get it, I get it.

SPEAKER_00 36:07

It also depends, like, okay, so let's use Brock as an example. If Brock shows up for a month at a time for a couple weeks, wrestles a match at a pay-per-view, you don't see him for months, comes back. He feels special if he's there every single week and wrestles every single week, the aura starts to lose because he's not a big prize fighter anymore, he's just another talent, therefore he's overexposed. Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, but somebody has to wrestle. Right. Yeah, but but I'm saying there is there are scenarios where overexposure is a thing. Do you overexpose your biggest stars and have them on there all the time so they don't feel like they're as important?

SPEAKER_04 36:53

Ah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:55

You know what I mean? Like like people complain about Roman not being full time, but when he shows up, the crowd loses their shit. But then, hey, let's get him back with the bloodline, have them on there every week. Okay, we're getting tired of this.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

So tired of your bloodline, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:09

So, where's the sweet spot of not are by having them there every week? Now people are saying it's they are getting tired of it, so you're overexposing that that asset. By only having them there part-time, the crowd doesn't get tired of him, so he's still the best asset you got. So it's it's Cody every week, multiple segments. People are getting tired of him.

SPEAKER_05 37:30

See, but here's but here's the part that doesn't connect for me because people are saying that they are so sick and tired of these certain things, but these things are driving the business.

unknown 37:40

Right.

SPEAKER_05 37:41

Like the like the money is adding up the complaints, it's the complaints don't equal the the revenue.

SPEAKER_00 37:49

Right. It's well, it's one thing to say, I'm tired of watching this guy on my TV every week. But if I said, Oh, you know, I'm tired of watching Cody every week and I went to buy a ticket and Cody wasn't on the show, I'm probably a little less likely to buy that ticket. So is he overexposed to the online audience or the the home watchers? Yes. To the live audience? Absolutely not, because they you pay to see the big names when you pay or when you go to a live event.

SPEAKER_03 38:16

Yeah, yeah.

unknown 38:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

So you can't, it's it's impossible to please everybody, obviously, because you can't do both. I do think unless you dark match the big names, and then like what's the point of having them there just for a dark match?

SPEAKER_05 38:30

Okay. So okay, let's go back to let's go back to the peak. Let's go back to the peak of wrestling. I think the attitude era just covers like everything peak wrestling. Right? So we have WCW, we have ECW, we have WWF, all three companies are going, they're flourishing, they all have names, everybody's popular, everybody's over, right? Outside of X Pop. Was they were there any other wrestlers, any other wrestlers that people were like absolutely not tired of seeing them like go away that you can think about?

SPEAKER_00 39:20

No.

SPEAKER_05 39:21

And that's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 39:23

Because multiple things about that. One, okay, the amount of hours of cut wrestling content we had at that point was a lot less. So now in the digital age, we in the digital age. Okay, so I could sit here and watch watch Cody Rhodes videos 24 hours a day because it's all there.

SPEAKER_03 39:43

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

You couldn't do that back then. Right. The only time you were gonna see those guys was during that time slot.

SPEAKER_03 39:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

So I think the internet drives into the overexposure as well.

SPEAKER_05 39:56

Well, but but but the internet, you can pick and choose what you want to see and not see.

SPEAKER_00 40:01

You can, but fans are fickle and are gonna complain about stuff while still watching. As you could also say at some point, not a particular wrestler, but at some point the NWO got overexposed. When you had pretty much every single segment had some form of NWO in it. It may have been their their C team, but it was still NWO.

SPEAKER_05 40:23

That is true. Which ultimately led to WCW losing money.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 40:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:33

So so yes, the answer is still yes. There is too much things as overexposure. You want to maximize profit with as much exposure as possible without people getting so tired of it that you then lose money.

SPEAKER_05 40:45

So what happens when something is uh when you get too much of something, you create a spin-off, right? Yep. And that's how we got the MFT.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

Speaking of which, we're gonna have to talk about that after the podcast.

SPEAKER_05 41:00

We have to talk about the MFTs?

SPEAKER_00 41:03

Yep, we're gonna have a brief discussion about the MFTs when when we wrap this up. Stay tuned, fans.

SPEAKER_05 41:09

Oh. Is it like spoiler alert? Potentially. Well, is it gonna be like spoiler alert before this episode goes up?

SPEAKER_00 41:18

Uh if it if the episode releases earlier in the day, Friday, yes.

SPEAKER_05 41:24

Oh shoot. All right, never if it releases before Smackdown, so all right, never mind. All right, we we don't have an exclusive for you all, so sorry.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

I could give you an exclusive, but then you're gonna know about it before watching SmackDown. Yeah, nah, it's all good. It's all good.

unknown 41:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:43

To be fair, anyone listening to this podcast will probably have already read it well before SmackDown happens.

SPEAKER_05 41:48

True, true, because you know the internet, you know. Yep. We keep no secrets around here. Uh-huh. But that's all I got. You guys got anything else? Any any any closing arguments, comments?

SPEAKER_01 42:03

Yeah, it's time. Nah, I think Brooks said it best, honestly. Uh, like with Brock Lesnar, the reason why he shows up one once every little bit, it's like people will get bored of you. It's just the overexposure. Like, if Brock Lesnar was shown up every week, it would just people be like, okay, it's boring. Like I don't want to see it anymore. It's not as special. Brock Lesnar is a special attraction. Roman Reigns at this point's a special attraction. There is a there is an ext is there's an extent to overexposure. I think like I was I I I feel like I bring up Danhausen a lot, but like eventually we're gonna be bored of Danhausen shit.

SPEAKER_00 42:43

If they keep the pace, they aren't really using him.

SPEAKER_01 42:45

Yeah. Yeah, if they keep the pace, like I mean, don't get me wrong, he's killing it. But there's gonna be a time and place where like, okay, okay, Danhausen, stop, stop freaking cursing us now. Like, we get it, dude. You can you're gonna curse everybody. But it's like when if they if they s like at some point they kind of just like do a little bit here and there, we'll be good. But if they're like that's why I I think after he debuted, they weren't having him appear as much, maybe like during like commercial breaks when he was like shooting t-shirts into the crowd and stuff, and we weren't seeing him because that was just for the live crowd to see him. And now we get to see him more because that's what the fans want, but we weren't overexposed to him right away. At least the TV crowd wasn't.

SPEAKER_00 43:31

Did just think of another good example of the overexposures and trying not to overexpose kind of thing. Think of when the Undertaker went away and came back as the biker. He felt like his dead man gimmick had gone so long that there was nothing else to do to keep the crowd interested, that it had been exposed out as far as it could. So then he went away, came back as the biker, re-got the hype, and left that dead man character to the side for a while. So then when he switched back to it, the crowd was excited about it again. So that's a prime example of knowing that you're getting overexposed and fixing the problem.

SPEAKER_05 44:12

Okay, fair enough. Alright, guys. We are going to wrap it up for this week. Another week in the books to check the box. Check. And uh we'll catch you guys next week. Once again, this is uh Jake and Brooks and Ryan from the Three Stage of the March podcast. We are out of stage of March.