Sami Zayn, Wrestling Injuries and Paycuts

In this weeks episode we cover three new topics. The first topic is wrestling injuries and how they seem to be inevitable regardless of the schedule. The second topic is Sami Zayn and how we feel about the title reign that has come and gone. And our last topic is wrestling longevity and pay specifically with the WWE. 

Thank you for listening to our podcast!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:11

What's up, guys? Welcome back to episode twenty-six of the Three Stages of the Marks podcast. Once again, I am Shay. I'm here with Brooks and I'm here with Ryan. And uh I feel like we have some strong, strong topics this week. But before we get started, how are you guys doing this week?

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Doing phenomenal. Doing.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Doing. Yeah, that's how I feel.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Watched AEW. Watched AEW for the first time live in a while last night. Just because I was also It's been a while since I watched minus the last pay-per-view I was like trying to watch. But it's been a while since I've watched AEW Live. Because for a while, for years I was consistently watching every single Wednesday. And but it's I've been working Wednesday nights. It's hard to you know watch wrestling and work, and but it was a good show last night. I like the venue. Dude, the venue, perfect. It was a nice amphitheater. Um I miss you know wrestling shows being outside. It's really cool. Adds adds a little uh adds a little oomph to it when it's outside and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Well, you know, responsibilities come first, so yes, yeah. So I mean, while we're on the aw topic, I guess we should just start with a w, right? So I so we well I mean by the time this comes out on Friday, everybody should know by now that Kenny Omega won the AW World Championship from MJF. So seemingly he's gonna face Will Ospreay at all out, all in, all in, yeah. All in. But we don't know, we don't know that, but he did um, I did have a a post from the Shut Up and Wrestle podcast uh that MJF was talking about, how he's um you know, just injured and he's in pain. But you know, he's a top guy, so that's to be expected. Um, he's just gonna go and you know keep pushing. And um, he's not trying to bury the AW medical team, but he's just in a lot of pain structurally. He feels good, he's 30. He's not sure how he's gonna feel when he's you know 40 or 50, but he's not asking for sympathy from anybody. He understands you know what comes with wrestling, it's his dream, and he just wishes that you know fans understood that when they go out to the ring and they work, you know, night in and night out, that it's uh it's a painful process. So my my initial thoughts to that were okay, what can you do to to mitigate those things, right? Is aw allowing their guys to go out and work indies and work awtv? Is that like too much on their bodies? Can they rotate guys in and out because we know the AW roster is freaking massive? Are are there some other thoughts out there you guys have anything for the AEW roster?

SPEAKER_01 3:23

I I've I I've been seeing it more, but there has been a lot of AEW guys not taking bookings elsewhere. I don't know if because the relationships with other companies with WWE possibly, because I know like Blake Christian, one of the guys that used to wrestle for GCW all the time. I do not see him wrestle for GCW anymore. Now, I don't know if he's taking bookings outside, but he's been getting used a lot in Ring of Honor and AEW TV sometimes here and there. But I guess some of the smaller talent who maybe aren't being used much, if they want to go take bookings if they're allowed to, I don't see that being an issue as long as they're playing it smart and not overworking themselves.

SPEAKER_02 4:08

Yeah, it makes it makes sense for the smaller talent to take any booking, because what what's it gonna hurt if they get hurt they're not getting used anyways? But the top talent, I feel like they should not be taking any bookings. You don't risk your high paying main event spot to go do some gymnasium in the middle of bumpuck nowhere.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

Do we do we know um if aw provides like I mean, I'm I'm sure they provide some type of downside guarantee, right? They're not just paying guys based on appearance.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

Uh I I I mean, by the sounds when when I don't see that's a thing, that's what's not really announced to the public is how much someone's actually getting guaranteed to make, especially when it comes to AEW, they might have a contract, but there's gotta be some like especially if they're hurt and they can't work, they have to be getting some kind of money.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

That's what I thought.

SPEAKER_02 5:01

That's what I that's what I thought, but would they consider their entry-level developmental characters? So like some of the Ring of Honor talent, downside guarantee somewhere between 40 and 100,000 a year. Uh lower card talent somewhere between a hundred and two hundred thousand, mid-card between two hundred and five hundred, upper card five hundred to a million, and then the top stars up somewhere between a million to three million.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Okay. So okay. So even if you're a lower card guy and you make between a hundred and two hundred, I mean, which isn't terrible, right?

SPEAKER_02 5:36

If you're good with your money, I mean you can make it on that, but especially when AEW pays for your travel, pays for that thing. It's not like they're paying for everything out of pocket.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Right. But I could also understand the allure, no pun intended, the allure of wanting to make some extra cash quick, easy, going out to an indie show and you know, working a 10-minute match somewhere or doing a signing and working a show or something like that. I mean, I can see it.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

I can see it. Especially if you're not getting utilized.

unknown 6:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

If you're sitting in catering anyway, then you want to get the itch, you want to keep the reps.

unknown 6:17

True.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

You don't want to get out of ring shape.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

It it it happened recently, but MJF was supposed to work in Indie Show. Um, it was I think I forgot the the promotion's name. Was it like Beyond Wrestling? But it was like right before I think it was like right before he dropped the title, Darby Allen. They announced MGF could no longer wrestle because he got hurt during that match against Darby Allen. I think it was when he dropped it. So now MGF normally doesn't take indie bookings as of late, but there was a special reason why he took that booking. I think it was uh one of the promotions he started in or something like that. But he I I don't even know if he's gonna even end up doing that booking or if he ever if he ever did it, because I don't really follow that promotion like that. But it just I don't I still don't understand how MJF, a guy who doesn't really wrestle that often, is wrestling hurt. If you think about it, he hasn't really been wrestling that much.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

I mean, I feel like when he does wrestle, like the the matches that he has are very involved, though.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

Yeah, no, you're right about that. Like last night's uh match of him and Omega, he was he was taking some bumps. No, he's not.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

And then you look on the flip side where everybody says, you know, WWE's too slow paced, and um it's it's safe, it's it's easy, it's like step one to step two to step three. But I mean their talent get hurt too. Even though they play it on the safer side, like their guys and girls are out there, you know, hurting themselves just as much as the the AW talents are. So it seems like there is just no middle ground for professional wrestling in injuries.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

It's a physical event.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

Injuries are going to happen one way or another.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:12

Hell, some of us can't get out of bed without hurting our backs. They're out there falling on their back 20 times for in a row of 10 minutes, and you know, it's inevitably going to get hurt.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Well, there's a it was for a while, like in NXT, a lot of them women all had knee injuries. There was like 10 different women that all had the same knee injury. I think Nikita was one of them. Um uh Adriana Rizzo, and there's a few others that I can I really can't think of, but they all had like the same knee injury. I don't know how they all got hurt doing I guess that is just happens.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

I mean the human body is not meant to do that over and over. It's like pretty much any major sports athlete, they are going to get hurt at some point because the body cannot withhold itself in that wear and tear.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

Yeah, I feel like the the the only remedy there is to like give guys time off, like run them through programs and then kind of move them out, move somebody else in. But I understand MJF being as popular as he is, you want him all year round, but can't can't they work on building other talent to to fill his void while he takes the time out to get himself better? Yeah, is there a lack of uh character development in wrestling where they always have to rely on the same people? I think there is.

SPEAKER_02 9:52

Yeah, heavily. Yes, but at the same time, you know, if you're a paying fan, you expect to see certain talents.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

That's what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

For the for the paying fan, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

Yeah that's that's what I mean. So if we look at uh like top guys in wrestling companies, if we take like a w out of the equation, um and we look at hmm, John Cena, right? Or we look at well, probably let's look at John Cena. Like John Cena was the number one, and I would say for a long time Batista was probably the number two because they were on separate brands. Um I think most people from the Raw brand would want to see John Cena, and most people on SmackDown brand paid to see you know Batista, but if those guys swapped out and Batista went over to to Raw, I I think that's a I think that's an acceptable trade-off because you have those two like main guys and both of them are like heavily over. I I don't think fans would be upset if they took one out and put one in, but you have to have two guys that are like on the same level to be able to pull something like that off. Did that make sense? Yeah. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

I th I think that's like one of the reasons why they don't run house shows that often. I mean, I know they do when they go, like I think they're doing like a some live events in Mexico coming up. But uh I think that like just to lighten the load on on talent and plus like they don't they don't want to be using their top guys every single night. Because when I I think the last live event I went to, the main event was like Seth Rollins and Matt Riddle, and that was when there was like no like I think Roman was world champion. I can't remember what year. I think it was like 2022 or whatever. It was like Matt Seth Rollins and Matt Riddle, and it's like that was their main event. That was their two biggest guys on the roster to do a main. Like, I wasn't complaining, it was a fun main event still, but who would else could have filled that void? Because Roman wasn't doing how shows at the time. I can't remember who else was on the roster that was gonna be doing how shows and live events every single day of the week.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

I don't know. It's like I feel like the business is the business, and that's just the way that it is, that's the way it's gonna be. Whose catchphrase is that? That is that Carmelo Hayes. Is it something about that's what it is and that's all it's gonna be? I think that's Carmelo Hayes. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

Sound right.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

But all right. Um should we should we talk about Sammy Zayn? Oh Sammy Zayn. Yeah, I feel bad for the guy, but at the same time, I don't feel bad for the guy because he did get the accolade, he won the belt, right? I just wish that they did a little bit more with him before they took the belt back off of him because we WWE is always they just always go back to the same comfort zone that they have, and they did with CM Punk. And I know a lot of people were complaining online, was like, oh well, Punk complained about this, you know, 10 years ago, and then he comes back and then he gets the the belt immediately after you know missing some time. I don't think it's exactly the same, but um, I can see why people might be upset with how that I gotta remember before he took this time off, he was wrestling every single week.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

He was not missing shows. So the complaint about him being a part-timer and doing this is is not valid.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

Right. I think the thing I think the thing that really gets me about it is how WWE tries to they they try to build everything on story, right? Everything's so story driven, but they always seem to make these random title decisions in haste. Right. So CM Punk just randomly pops up in Chicago, gets a world title shot. Like, why didn't someone like Gunther get that title shot? Um clearly there were other people that have been working towards a potential, you know, title opportunity, and like Punk just walks right in the door and like gets it. It's like the the the story isn't there, it's just it's just so random how they make certain decisions. I I don't get it. I don't get it. And I remember in the past, like John Cena one time when he was watching oh shoot, it was was it an episode of Unreal where he was watching a match. No, no, no. It was uh it was Triple H versus Sting at Mania 31. So it might have been that WWE 24, one of those documentaries, and he was like, Sometimes you just gotta, you know, throw the rules out of the window and just entertain the people. That like hit me as soon as I like saw punk win, and I'm like, that's like John Cena literally spoke that. He's like, you know, throw the rules out, just make people happy, and that's what they did, made Chicago happy.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Uh yeah, I I would I didn't want to see that because you guys know I'm not the biggest CM Punk fan. I used to be for a really long time, but I do feel bad for Sammy. Like the and he cut like a backstage promo saying like how can someone you know just walk around a pin in here and get a shot at it. Like, Sammy Zane was cutting like a crazy promo. I he was like dropping some F-bombs or whatever the hell it was. But I do feel for Sammy. Sami Zayn.

unknown 15:41

Huh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

He like there was like a backstage video of him like him pissed off. Like he was you can feel it, and that's what I like. And I like I was against Sami Zayn win the title, but now I feel like for the people that were against Sami Zayn winning the title, and now those same people might be feeling bad for Sami Zayn, like, well, damn, he just had like a nine-day title reign and lost to some guy after not being here for the last few months, just to walk right up in here in his hometown, Chicago. I think those people now are gonna be like, you know what? Now I want Sami Zayn to get his redemption, and now I would now I feel like this is gonna be a redemption story for Sami Zayn to win the title back eventually.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Now that I now because like I said, I will I I'm I've been sick of the underdog. Now I think now that the underdog story's gone, it's gonna be the redemption story, and I think I can get behind that a little bit more because we've been seeing the underdog story of Sami Zayn for so long. Now it's now it's from uh I keep on talking about stories ever since freaking Cody Rhodes came back to the B, he's talking about his finishing his story, and now I feel like that that's the end goal for every wrestling uh storyline or everything. It's like we gotta finish our story, and now it's like Sammy Zayn is on to a new chapter of his story, and he's gotta get the redemption.

SPEAKER_02 17:03

Yeah. And he'll get the redemption eventually. Um, so multiple things. One, you know, Shay, you're saying the throw the rules out thing, punk winning in Chicago to make the crowd happy. Is that not the exact same thing they did with Sammy winning the title in Saudi?

SPEAKER_00 17:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:19

So okay, so you had a you had a happy moment there, you get another happy moment here.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

Yeah, right. But I bet you that CM Punk's reign is gonna be treated a lot more uh uh shoot, what's the wrong looking for? Seriously, yeah, for sure. Um he's gonna get a really big match out of it, probably a bigger payoff than Sami Zayn got for sure.

SPEAKER_02 17:44

I mean it just so so the plan has been for a while Punk versus Cody for the title at SummerSlam. So obviously one of them was gonna have the title going into SummerSlam. I think that so many people had clamored, like, when is Sammy gonna win his, blah blah blah blah blah, that they were like, alright, we got a per moment right here. We can take the title off of Cody, we can let Sammy get his title in, and then we can take it right back off and make the crowd happy in Chicago by getting punk the title, and then we're still set up just how we were for our SummerSlam story. On top of that, the money's always in the chase. So Sammy, having gotten the taste, losing it, now can chase it again with a whole different. I'm not being the underdog, I I can be gritty and more of a heel type thing. It's going to work out better than him winning the title in the first place.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

Shoot, I feel like he's more of an underdog now than anything. Do we really think he's gonna win a second title?

SPEAKER_02 18:46

Yeah, I think he will at some point.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

We do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:50

Okay. It may not be another and it may be another nine-day title reign, but I think he'll win another one. Oh, jeez, that's terrible. The crowd got tired of him, and then you give him the belt, you rip it away from him. For the most part, that's gonna get the crowd back behind him again. So then you have you have the crowd pushing for him to get another chance and and redeem you know that crap run. So that's what the WWE wants. They want you to get behind somebody, they want you the money in the chase.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Well, at least Drew McIntyre won't have the shortest reins now. It'll be Sami Zayn then.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

I don't know that. I don't know. Drew won that one at uh Mania that we went to and then lost it five minutes later.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

So he had that short title reign, then he had like a title reign that was like a month, right? When he lost it back to Cody. Um was there was another one in there, I'm sure. He had one longer one.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

He had the the Ovid run.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Yes, the COVID run. That was like a more serious one. I I enjoyed that one. Yeah, he lost it champion four times, I thought.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

He has. He lost it during COVID to Orton and then won it right back like a month later.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

Ah, I see, I see.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

Okay, I feel like people forget that title ring because Orton was champion during COVID and for like a month.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

Yeah. So what's okay? So if we're doing Punk and Cody at SummerSlam, which is gonna be an amazing well, I'm not gonna say amazing story, but the crowd's gonna be heavily behind them two facing each other in a match, so we know that's gonna be great. And it seems they seem to be behind Roman and Seth too. I I personally I don't see it, but I'm not the majority, right? But whatever. Uh, but what happens with Sami Zayn? Where does Sammy fit in for SummerSlam?

SPEAKER_01 20:47

That's a good question. I can top you one better. Where does like LA Knight fit in for SummerSlam after all the shit he was just talking to to Seth on Raw?

SPEAKER_00 20:57

LA Knight.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

Yeah, yeah. Oh jeez. Where where does where does Drew McIntyre fit in? Drew McIntyre hasn't been census mania. You think he's gonna miss a big four?

SPEAKER_00 21:10

Yeah. Oh they don't they don't need him right now.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

We need Drew McIntyre to save us from the summer of punk. Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

So probably what, LA versus J? You know, or LA versus Fatu again. Again. That's the only thing I can guess for that. Um I'm not exactly sure what Sammy's gonna do. I mean, they could they could go with the oh, I'm not even on the card to get him pissed off even more and then have him interfere or something. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

Why don't they just put Gunther with Adam Pierce and put Aldous with Ellie Knight and just have a tag team match?

SPEAKER_02 21:56

I think Aldous deserves a singles match.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

He can still have a singles match. Match.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Then why put him with LA Knight?

SPEAKER_00 22:04

Because Gunther's gonna choke him out in the tag match, and then he's gonna redeem himself in the singles match.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

No gosh, what is it? What is he, the Redeemer?

SPEAKER_02 22:14

He's gonna get the one match at SummerSlam. That's probably gonna be it. Lame.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

We'll be cool seeing Nick Aldous wrestle Gunther. I think that's gonna be a good match for Nick Aldous if it is his one and only match.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

I guess. He better have uh good theme music.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

Dope down on it. Not no garbage. It's gonna be some garbage.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

I mean, it's probably gonna be like some British sounding. It's gonna be deaf rebel, all right. British British Bulldogs intro.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

I don't know. And he's gonna come up out of the stage like Cody does.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

What is what is uh red, white, and blue jacket?

SPEAKER_02 22:57

The Britain nightmare.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

Yeah. Um so yeah, we don't know where Sammy's going, but we know that we're getting punk and and Cody, which is I mean, I'm I'm cool with that. I know it's gonna be a good match, so unlike unlike Cody and Orton.

SPEAKER_02 23:14

But obviously they're gonna go with the biggest names being head-to-head at a big four, especially when it's the first two-night SummerSlam.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

Yeah, so but remember remember when Vince used to like take a chance on new guys at big shows? Yeah. Will we ever see that again?

SPEAKER_02 23:35

Uh I guess it depends on how you look at it. Like Oba getting hell in a cell against Brock, I feel like that's that's giving the new guy a big opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Yeah, see, but it's not like it's not like the main event slot. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 23:52

But it but it might be the most anticipated match on the card, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

That's fair. That's fair, but that's not the match that they're using to sell tickets. That like they're putting Roman and Seth on the the Marquee, and then they're putting Cody and CM Punk on the marquee. Like they always use the same guys now. Like, remember back when Brock was like four months in and he was put in the the main event against the rock? Yeah, just kind of just like pushed him out there, right? Sink or swim, right? I mean, luckily he he swam, but you know, it's just like well, I feel like we'll just never see that again. Like, even with Oba, they had the chance with Oba. Uh, but I mean, of course, his Brock story needs to culminate here, but they're now they're pushing him all the way forward to Mania. It's gonna be the bigger moment, but still.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

I s I still like to me looking at the card, I to Lesnar is still the like final boss type character. And going against him and Hell in a Cell, it may not be billed as the main event, it's a main event.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

I think I think that will be night one main event. I said they could.

SPEAKER_02 25:09

Tell me I'm wrong, but yeah, they could very well go with the bookend style of one title opens the first night and the other title closes the next night. Like they did the Mania We Went To.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

Who's opening? Cody? Cody has to open then.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

I would think so. Especially they like to get the crowd hyped to start the show, then having a sing-along time with Cody's music and then Punk's music, then that that'll get it going right away.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

Although, although Roman ha is not a stranger to opening pay-per-views during his whole bloodline time.

SPEAKER_02 25:43

Well, see, that's what uh SummerSlam is in August. So uh I think youth football season starts then. He might need to get home for his kids' football practice. So maybe he'll just open first night and then book.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

And and and don't be shocked if they put Oba and Brock in the first hour for the ESPN crowd.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

Yeah, so there's always that now. Is is you're gonna get a main event type match in the first hour somewhere. Yeah. Because ESPN wants it.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

That's just weird. Oh, that's so weird. Like I'm used to it like at Mania, um, but that's just weird. If they put that on first, that's crazy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

But again, with it being uh uh the first two night SummerSlam, the whole formula is different than it normally is.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

That's true. That is so true. All right. Alright, Ryan, you had a you had a final topic for us today.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

Yeah. Um, so it is I don't think it's been full confirmed, but it's looking like that Seamus is gone from the WWE. Um probably the same reason why Xavier and Kofi have left the company as well, is because they're not only did their contracts get get reconstructed, and they probably were offered a lot less money. And since TKO is anyone understand it's not the same what's going on when they were first debuted the company, and now they've made so much money with the company, and now they've kind of like hit the end of their career in a way where they're probably not moving as much merch, they're probably not you know being at being at the top anymore. Like they, you know, Seamus is at the top for for a little while in his career, and he's done well, but now he's hit this point to where TKO probably doesn't want to use him. It's like, oh, he's getting too old, or something like that, and they just wanted to offer him a lot less money. And I I'm I'm thinking, like, does longevity with like a company even matter anymore at this point? Because Seamus has been with was with WWE for like 16, 17 years, Kofi roughly the same time, and Xavier Woods was with him for just as long as well. Uh does it does like like the Miz is probably like the longest tenured guy right now?

SPEAKER_00 28:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

I mean, how do they keep on using the Miz? I mean, does Miz take a pay cut to stay with W? Or are they actually offering Miz uh good amount of money because Miz has assets and Miz is can be a guy that you can has like that face that can do media and and this and that?

SPEAKER_02 28:21

Um that's exact that's exactly what it is in Miz's case, is he's his val or is just as valuable away from the ring for WWE as he is in the ring.

SPEAKER_01 28:31

So I'm I'm thinking here it's like does TKO even value some of these guys that have been with the company for so long? And then and it kind of it sucks, but it's like honestly, if Seamus or and and whoever else decides to leave the the company from this point on, if they think they're worth more, then I mean you're only worth more than what you think you are. You know, if what you can show, you know, Seamus is probably thinks he does he can earn a million dollars a year, he might end up going to AEW. That's it if if he surely wants to. But I mean, stand your ground when it comes to a contract being like, hey, we're gonna just do this, so we don't think you are the are valued this much here anymore, so we're just gonna offer you a lot less. And and and it it's it's weird because now that they're bringing back um some other names like Baron Corbin. Baron Corbin's rumored to be coming back, and same thing with like Endzo and Big Cass. Those guys were with Dodoe for a little bit. Maybe Endzo and Cass, not so much, but Baron Corbin was Dudu for a little while. And then bringing them back, wondering how much they're gonna be getting from these contracts, like how much like how much they're getting valued. Now, yes?

SPEAKER_00 29:48

No, uh go ahead. You can finish.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Sorry, I'm just I'm just yapping a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

No, I was just gonna say, I think the I think the problem is now that everything is profit, you know, revenue driven, like what's your return on investment, right? It's all analytics now. It's not a family business anymore, like when the McMahons were owning, and that's why a lot of people kind of lean towards the style that Tony Khan has, is because he still runs it as like a family business. He's not necessarily caught up in the financials of it. Um, so I'm thinking they're looking at things like uh, you know, ratings, which they should have always been looking at, like quarter hour ratings, and you know, people are like who's watching these people when they're on TV, but they're probably looking at like merch sales. Um, and if somebody's injured, right, how much time are you on the shelf? Like you're not bringing any value to the brand right now, right? So I'm sure a lot of that is being wrapped up in there, in addition to any other analytics that they're probably looking at to create some type of value for each wrestler. So when they renegotiate the contract, they're like, Okay, well, we're gonna offer him less money because he's not as involved as he once was. It sucks.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

It does, but it but like you mentioned the merch sales to me. If you just look at the pattern of who they've been signing, that's 100% part of TKO's logic at this point. Yeah, Cardona, Paige, Pinta, Danhausen, potentially Enzo and Cass, they sell merch. They are all going to sell a large amount of merch. Hell of a lot more merch than Seamus is selling. Well for sure.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

If you look at it, it's like also what else, like, for example, what else has Seamus not done in the WWE besides win the intercount title? Um, and then the same thing with like Kofi and Xavier, they can only do tag team stuff for so long. I mean, them going to another promotion or doing stuff outside of the won't hurt them.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

And and I think people look at it like it's like the normal working world, right? Like the longer you work, you just continue to, you know, not not elevate, but you continue to get like cost of living increases, and like your your value continues to go up because you're you you become more senior. It it's just not the way that WWE's set up to be. Um like why are you paying a guy more just because he's been around longer? He's not doing anything. He's not like traveling to to cities and towns and doing shows, like he's literally not doing anything. So if you're gonna stick around and you're not gonna wrestle, maybe you're gonna be like an ambassador or you're gonna train or something like that, then it it makes sense that he takes a a slight pay cut. Hopefully, it's not a huge pay cut, but clearly it's enough for him to like not resign if he thinks he can do better elsewhere.

SPEAKER_02 32:50

I think what I saw earlier was it was at least a 25% pay cut, if not more.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

Okay. And depending on how much he was getting prior, could be pretty massive. 25% is a lot.

SPEAKER_02 33:04

And his last contract, his last contract was what, when they were doing the like giving everybody five-year big money deals. So he was probably getting overpaid at that point. That's a lot of people were getting overpaid then. His last five-year deal was in 2023. So, yeah, when they were paying people way too much.

SPEAKER_00 33:22

And I'm wondering what his plan is is gonna be. Like, if you're not wrestling, I wonder if there's like another plan in place where he thinks that he can like build like his own brand or something like that. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

I mean, he has started to build his own brand with the workout videos and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, I was gonna say yeah. So he's but he's not he's charismatic, but he's not like one of those people that draws you in. Like you want to experience the brand of that person.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

Yeah, or maybe he has been, you know, really smart with his money over the years. I mean, he's been in the WE for a long time. So maybe he was smart with his money and invested, and maybe he's good.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

Yeah, could be you would you would you would hope so.

SPEAKER_00 34:10

He can he can go back home and maybe help out like a local company or something, or you know, do whatever else he wants to do. Nobody says that he has to go and wrestle somewhere else. He may decide like that's it. I'm just gonna do what I want to do.

SPEAKER_02 34:26

Um with that said, there's already rumors of him potentially going to AEW.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

Oh, good lord.

SPEAKER_02 34:31

But there's also already been several reports of AEW talent being like, no, don't we don't want him signed. Nothing against him, but they're starting to get to that point of the the TNA thing back in the day. You're bringing in too many XWE guys, you're just pushing us off the card. Stop doing that.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

Well, they need some they need some more names to you know fill that Wembley Stadium because it's not looking it's not looking too hot.

SPEAKER_02 35:00

And I mean, they could always do a one-off thing with them and or with Shanus, and Wembley would be a great place to do it. Yeah, it's gonna be more popular with the European crowd.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

Um, I did want to mention one little tiny thing uh just to get it out there before we end. So if you guys don't have anything else to add to the topic.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Nope. Awkward silence.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

I was let's give you guys a chance to talk. I'm sorry. But um are you guys familiar with Orange Crush? The wrestling company? No, the comp yeah, the company. They said they started doing a I want like it's very interesting. They're doing uh it's called Produce. So it's they're running shows, but every show is produced by a a certain wrestler, a different wrestler. I guess they're like producing the whole show. Um they're doing their second show here in a couple weeks, and it's the whole show is produced co-produced by Lee Moriarty, and it's uh it's ironic that the it's it's their second show, so it's volume two, and it's called Tiger Style. Um, and they have other shows as well, like the third show is gonna be produced by Rocky Romero.

SPEAKER_02 36:12

Um, Grisham.

SPEAKER_01 36:15

Grisham, yes, yeah. Um, so it's like it's like uh it's like a wrestling by uh produced by wrestlers or something like that. They have like some kind of slogan, and they got like a show being produced by Joe Janelle and Megan Bain. Um, the dogs are producing an upcoming show, the Rock and Roll Express are producing the last show of the year, looks like they they have like the whole entire like um like lineup of shows for the rest of the year. I don't know. I just find it very interesting that there's someone out there that is letting wrestlers produce shows. And they have like a lot of guys like announced for this, like promotion or whatever you want to call it. I'm not sure if it's like an independently signed or independent promotion, but like Mance Warner and like Effie and um like Andre Andre Chase just got announced for the promotion and stuff like that. There's like a lot of a lot of bigger names for this promotion, too.

SPEAKER_02 37:07

It it seems like they're starting to get some backing or already have some decent backing. They're joined my my AEW last year. They have apparently been off and on negotiations to try to buy trailer TV for a while. Really? Okay. They've got some financial backing somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 37:28

I don't know, just another wrestling company coming in coming in the coming in, you know. They're uh we're getting flooded with with wrestling right now. But yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:39

Flooded with wrestling, and to me, overall, a down period in wrestling.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

Well, it's let's try to take the positive of things. There's just more wrestling.

SPEAKER_02 37:47

Sometimes less is more.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

Anything else we got for this week, gentlemen?

SPEAKER_00 37:52

No, sir.

SPEAKER_01 37:53

Okay, Shay, take us out of here then, buddy.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

All right, guys. Thank you guys for listening to another episode of the Three Stages of Marks podcast on behalf of myself and Ryan and Brooks. We out.

SPEAKER_02 38:07

Later, Marks.