Wrestling Documentaries, Heyman's Next, Weak Summerslam Build

This week we bring forward three new topics. The first is the next move for Paul Heyman. Will there be a new Heyman guy, or maybe a Heyman girl? The second topic is Summerslam and how the biggest party of the summer feels like a party you can miss. Our final topic is wrestling documentaries. Shows like Dark Side of the Ring and WWE Unreal, are they giving us too much inside info?

Thank you for listening to our podcast!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:10

What's up guys? Welcome to the Free Stage of Market podcast. This is episode 27. As always, three hosts. We have Shay, Brooks, and Ryan. Guys, we're back. What's going on? Well, we're back after uh a small week off hiatus. How are we feeling?

SPEAKER_04 0:33

Mad.

unknown 0:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

Didn't get into NXT last night. Yeah. I figure that you're gonna make that your topic, whether it's your topic or not. You're still gonna bring it up.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

I mean, I I was gonna bring it up, but I didn't expect him to bring it up himself. Just off the rip. Oh man. So all right, so Ryan, let let's let's let's just throw this out there. What happened last night? Time for Ryan's rant.

SPEAKER_04 1:05

So for those that don't know, there's a system to get to NXT, and it's you sign up, and they will they will somewhat approve you, and they're like, okay, well, on Monday, the day before NXT, we you'll either get a ticket or you won't. I got a ticket. But this happens, this happened to me twice back to back last year. I drove out there and they turned away like 50 people because oh we're in max capacity. Then don't approve so many people. You know so so many people's gonna show up, but they do just they want to approve so many people, just so they know they can have a pack crowd every single week. Well, went out there and I got like they started they start taking people like 5 45, and it's like the thing is some of those people are out there until that at 4 o'clock. I'm not waiting hours on end in the heat to wait out there, but uh get it a little bit after six. There's still like they've already loaded five buses of people at that point, and there's still about a hundred people in line. And they turned away about another 50 people last night, and I'm like, well, this is great, because I drove about an hour and a half out there, had to drive an hour and a half back. I was tired, I was pissed. That's why I'll probably not go to NXT ever again until they fix that system.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Well, well, Brooks, I don't know about you, but it seems to me that Ryan's just not dedicated enough.

SPEAKER_04 2:27

Oh yeah. They won't let me go out. Let me let me go out, yeah. Well, because half of them fans that are there every single week, they live five minutes away from the meetup spot. Of course they do. They live five minutes. A girl I know, she literally lives two minutes away from full sale university, and that's where people go, or that's where people go to wait to get loaded up onto the buses that transports them to the to the performance center.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

But yeah, you just gotta do better. It's as simple as that.

SPEAKER_04 2:54

Yeah, that's why I'd rather just go to AEW. At least they they would have let me in, you know.

SPEAKER_02 2:58

And that's why they didn't let you in NXT, because you say shit like that. Probably. They're watching your socials and be like, oh no, he mentioned AEW, don't let them in here.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Yeah, that's right. They're always watching, you know that. Back on track. Uh well, and other good news, uh, the the podcast has reached 750 uh total downloads, which I think is a pretty cool milestone that we had 750 listens is kind of cool. I mean, if we were standing if we were standing in a room in front of 750 people, I'd probably be kind of intimidated, to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

But yeah, yeah. But anyway, but I'd say I hope for a lot more.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

Huh?

SPEAKER_02 3:43

That's obviously hoping for a lot more.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Oh, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

Right now we're we're about as exclusive as an NXT show, apparently. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Oh my gosh. All right, Brooks, you're you're you're gonna kick us off today. Uh, what topic do you have for us this week?

SPEAKER_02 4:02

All right, uh, my topic is going to be what is next for Paul Heyman? Um, it seems like he's starting to distance from the vision. I know he said what two weeks ago after the Maxine thing that he didn't think the vision needed him anymore. And obviously Brock is probably on his way out after SummerSlam. So what do we think is next for Paul if he separates from the vision and Brock retires?

SPEAKER_01 4:34

So in the back of my mind, so when you first uh mentioned the topic, in the back of my mind, I'm like, do I care what Heyman is doing next? I don't know if I do. Um part of me is like, I'm gonna sit back and I'm I'm gonna see what they do because clearly, you know, Heyman can can can make a guy look like a million bucks, or at least seem like a million bucks by him just speaking, right? Um, but I almost don't want to know where they're going with Paul Heyman. I kind of want it to be a surprise. Like who's the next Paul Heyman guy? Could be a really cool um unknown like story arc.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Right. They actually played it out like he was looking for a client, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

Yes, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

Because I mean the last real surprise I guess they had with Heyman was when Roman returned and they did that ending where Roman was in the locker room and then they widened the camera out to show Paul was beside him. And like I remember that moment feeling like it was a big deal. Like, one, it's Paul to anyone, pretty much anyone they tie with him ends up doing really well. Two, everyone was waiting for Roman's shift in character, and that just kind of felt like okay, we're definitely getting both of those things right now.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

But yeah, it's it's just like I don't see them taking him off TV just because they love to have Paul on TV. He's arguably the best pro or promo guy they have.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Like what if what if they what if they went into Uncharted Waters and gave Heyman like a tag team or create well, he already had a stable, like I mean the bloodline and the vision and all that stuff. But what if they gave Heyman a tag team? Or what if they put a female behind Heyman?

unknown 6:40

Right.

SPEAKER_04 6:40

That's that's what I was gonna bring up. Like, what if it's just not a guy, it's a Heyman girl.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

Right. I know um what Jordan Grace has been on social media pushing to be the first Heyman girl or the first on TV.

SPEAKER_04 6:57

She would be a perfect fit too. Which I think she would be.

SPEAKER_02 7:01

Right. Yeah. And I mean it's not like it would be the first time Paul has had a female or a tag team, but you have to go all the way back to like WCW to see the last time he had those.

SPEAKER_03 7:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

Um because when he had what the Dangerous Alliance, he had Arn and Tully, and then he had Alendra Blaze. So I mean he's had had that in the past, but it's been a long time. And it it could work. I mean, it could uh maybe there's someone like a Jordan Grace that that having Paul just as the mouthpiece would go a long, long way.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

But but you know, to the typical WWE fan, WCW doesn't exist, never existed, it never happened.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

That's not true, that's where Goldberg came from.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_04 7:52

And that's where Bret Hart died. His career died. Damn.

SPEAKER_02 7:57

I mean, they it's it's the the typical WWE fan only picks and chooses what they want to exist from WCW.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

Um, I I think even if Paul separates from the Vision, I don't think they're gonna pull him away from Breaker anytime soon. Even though Breaker has been showing to me, he's been showing that he has improved on the mic pretty good and can cut his own promos.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

Right.

SPEAKER_02 8:26

Um but they they seem to I mean they they kind of always stick to the plan of put Heyman with who we're strapping the rocket to.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

True. True. And and and I oddly, and and sorry to jump off the Heyman track here, I oddly enjoy the vision with the focus on Maxine.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

It's a different uh it's a different um kind of feel to it. Yeah. Like like you can go different ways that you couldn't normally go.

SPEAKER_04 9:02

And Maxine's always been face. And it's nice to see that like when it's not not saying she wasn't it wasn't working for her as a face, like it was cool that she was doing them segments with Otis and and Tizawa, and and it was and it was entertaining, but now Maxine's going heel. I am starting to like her more.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

I mean, she has been heel, but that was all the way back in that maximum male models gimmick. Oh, that she was she was heel for what two seconds? Yeah, I was gonna say, and then that just that was a comedy act to start with. So it it does it's not the same as being heel on a serious level.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Yeah, this this is what I expected Ariana Grace to graduate into. Like the young pageant type, but becomes grown and she turns into somebody like a Maxine Dupree. But clearly that's probably never gonna happen. They just don't wanna they just don't want to let her grow up for some reason.

SPEAKER_02 10:05

But yeah. Yeah. But like the intro there is intrigue there to see how the Maxine thing plays out with the vision, but I I feel like it's probably more likely the vision isn't going to be the vision. It's gonna be Logan Paul in theory and Maxine.

SPEAKER_00 10:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

I think if it's sooner than later Breaker is breaking away from it. And I don't think Bronson is coming back to the group when he comes back. It's just my guess. But I mean, I can see Paul going solely with Breaker. The thought of him having a female talent is interesting. Um, I know they say he works very closely with Obo backstage, which kind of makes sense. He's like, you're gonna be you're gonna be the next Brock anyway, so we might as well start working together now.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

True.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

Um, but I mean there's there's a long list of people that we don't see it on TV, but he works with uh directly backstage all the time. So it's it'll be interesting to see if they throw a new name to him on TV at least.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

So I'm I'm assuming you maybe have a name or or a few names in mind, um, since this is your topic, right? So were you thinking of anybody in particular?

SPEAKER_02 11:29

Um I had names when I first said something about this, and now I gotta remember who I was thinking. So yeah, I yeah, Breaker was one I was sticking with. There was somebody in NXT that I was like, they should bring him up and put him with Paul, but now I can't think of who it was.

SPEAKER_04 11:49

What about uh was that was that his name?

SPEAKER_01 11:51

Keanu oh Carver?

SPEAKER_02 11:54

Keanu Carver. I don't I don't see that being a good pairing. I just think Carver is unique on his own that he doesn't necessarily need the or to need that. Um I cannot remember. But I mean there's still there's some interesting names out there. Like I could see them like with Sammy's heel character aligning with Paul. Just with the like, I'm getting screwed, I need the or Paul can help me get to the top like he has everybody else. Uh women's division wise, Lash Legend to me would be for some reason would be a good fit with Paul. Just to propel her up. Uh Jasper Troy was the one I was thinking of from NXT.

SPEAKER_04 12:39

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:40

He's not he's not good on the mic, but he can be a monster. So I feel like that would be one that in the right scenario, when it's time to come up, he could fit Paul's role of let Paul talk and you just go in there and and destroy people.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:55

The former speed champion, Jasper Troy.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

So what about Trick Williams?

SPEAKER_02 13:06

Yeah, like Trick would definitely be an interesting one. I again don't know if he necessarily needs the mouthpiece, but then again, Roman didn't need the mouthpiece. Seth didn't need the mouthpiece.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Right. More more so for legitimacy.

SPEAKER_02 13:21

Yeah. Or um another one I had was Royce Keys. Like actually, if you're starting to do something with him, pair him with Ball. Like let him let him get that legitimacy from there. But there's just about anybody on the roster could benefit from a Paul Hammond association. It's just who's gonna fit with whatever story they're telling at the time.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Right.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

I don't see Trick and Yachty splitting up anytime soon.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

Um see, but see, but that would be that would be the the wrinkle in the relationship.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

Yeah. But like I'm not a I'm not a Zeb culture guy, I'm a Paul Heyman guy. Hopefully everyone that actually listens to this understands that reference. Once upon a time, Cesaro pretended to be a Paul Heyman guy.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

Oh it could have worked. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:29

Dude, even I I was I was gonna that's what I meant to bring up because I know you're talking about Paul Heyman. I'm not sure if you watched his interview with Chris Van Vleet, but it brought up that like not all Paul Heyman guys are gonna succeed. Because like Curtis Axel didn't succeed, Cesaro should have. Even Cena tried to Cena tried to vouch for that guy. Cena had a match with Cesaro and was like, I can main event WrestleMania with this guy. And Cena tried to like get him that rocket.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

So like Curtis Axel didn't succeed because he just didn't have it. Like he he was living in his dad's shadow and he was never gonna catch that.

SPEAKER_04 15:08

Cesaro Paul Heyman even said that he was like, they just needed to defeat guys at CM Punk at the time, so it was Ryback and Curtis Axel.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

I was gonna say, and Cesaro didn't succeed because Vince didn't want him to succeed. Right, and he should have though. Like if Cesaro was in today's WWE with trips booking, and if Paul could get his hands on him, he would succeed just fine. But it's it especially back then, it it all depended, didn't matter who Paul wanted to work with or who he was pushing for, if Vince didn't want it, it wasn't that. Um I also think Lyra would be an interesting female choice for Paul. Like especially with the heel turn right now. I just feel like it's uh it would be an interesting dynamic there too.

SPEAKER_04 15:57

Uh yeah, it would definitely make me more interested in her in her because I still am not interested in Lyra.

SPEAKER_02 16:04

Yeah, I I liked it with semi-off topic, I guess, but I I did watch her match with Bailey from the other night, and it did look like she was showing more grit or more ruthlessness, I guess, in the ring. She actually adapted her wrestling style to being a heel.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

And I was like, that's good. A lot of people will change from heel to face and not change their style at all. And you've got to be able to adapt. Adapt or perish. That's right. What about what about mellow? Like what if what if he like back to like your faction thing or your team thing? What if they ended up getting Mellow and Drick and somebody else and put them all on your ball?

SPEAKER_01 16:52

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:54

I mean Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

Possible.

SPEAKER_02 16:59

Uh Julia? Obviously, she's not kind of drummers in English. And I can't see Julia. No. And and uh what's her face? Keanu James. Yeah, she was she shouldn't have been a manager in the first place. It worked to get her back in the ring, but it she's better suited to wrestle, not be a manager.

SPEAKER_04 17:26

The only other valid option I see is Ilya Dragonov.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

Uh yeah, I was sitting here just staring at his picture right now. I'm like, ooh, Ilya. Staring at pictures of Ilya. I've got the roster page up, so I can scroll. Yeah. But Ilya would definitely be an interesting one too. Because I mean, overall what Brock's or not Brock, Paul's smallest guy has been Seth. If you really think about like Seth or Theory. He doesn't typically go with the smaller guys, but Ilya's jacked for a small dude, so maybe it'll work.

SPEAKER_04 18:04

He is jacked.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

They should give him Joe Hendry. And then Hendry would be released in a year. Because he's not suited to be a heel.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

Maybe Heyman can go face then.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

What if they bring Big Cass back and stick Paul with him?

SPEAKER_04 18:24

Oh god.

SPEAKER_02 18:26

They're both from New York.

SPEAKER_04 18:28

Oh gosh, don't even jinx it.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

The big redemption story and the way that things are aligning, it could be possible.

SPEAKER_04 18:36

Yeah. They're treating Big Cass like a big deal, by the way. They really are. They're treating him like a big deal right now.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

It's only a it's only a vignette.

SPEAKER_04 18:44

Don't don't No, but they're them bringing up like his past, like his drug abuse, and this and that.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Don't drink the Kool-Aid, man.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

If they have a plan and actually stick to it, then we'll see how it goes. But thinking about them bringing Cass back and Corbin back, and we I think we all were kind of like, why are they making these moves? Uh the roster is looking small height-wise. Like they don't have any of those towering guys right now, other than Omos, and he's not being used on the main roster.

SPEAKER_04 19:20

No.

SPEAKER_02 19:23

Yeah, so I'm like, maybe that's why they're bringing these guys back to try to add that that uh tall wrestler style in every once in a while. It got to be too much flippy dippy stuff. Moving on. Yeah, I was gonna say in the immediate future, what's next for Heyman is SummerSlam.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

Yes. Segway.

SPEAKER_04 19:51

Let's talk about SummerSlam because I am not digging the build-up. I know they just dropped ticket prices. Like they're not selling tickets for nothing. The only big thing that I think a lot of people are looking forward to is Brock and Oba, and potentially Brock's last match and a big match for Oba. I'm not a fan of Oba not getting a world title match, but I'm also just not a fan of like everything else. I'm hoping it's it shapes up to be a little bit something better, but as of right now, it's just not appealing.

SPEAKER_02 20:25

That's it. I don't know. I'm I'm excited about Aldous. That's that's personally intentional.

SPEAKER_04 20:29

Okay, I completely forgot about that. Yeah, Aldous and Gunther. That's probably the other thing I'm looking forward to. We know we know Braun Breaker is getting stuck in the tag team title match. The women's ladder match is gonna be cool. I'm hoping they that is gonna cook.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

No, it's not. No, right stop. Stop. It's not it's not gonna cook. No. I like I like I like I know like ladder matches are cool, right? And they add this like excitement to a show, but uh yeah, nah.

SPEAKER_04 21:08

I'm not. Are we gonna see any returns or debuts though? It's been a running trend.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

No, no, stop no stop adding new people to the fold when you can't even do right by the people that you have there now. So, my issue with SummerSlam as it stands now, and I don't know if I spoke about this in previous week. Or we did. We talked about this in in the last episode about like the guys at the top being like the old guard, like the you know, Cody's and and punks and Romans, and them not stepping aside, Seth Rollins not stepping aside and allowing like the newer guys to you know climb up you know another rung on the ladder. And that's why guys like you know like Knight and Fatu and Breakers and the Tag Division, but they just are like right below that level where they could step up if WWE needed them to, but they don't need them to because the ceilings there, because the top guys are standing on the top level and they just won't step down. It's like haha. Swap in, swap out. You have room to to like move guys in and move guys out, and they just won't do it. They just keep shoving the same guys down our throats. Isn't that ironic?

SPEAKER_04 22:42

Like, I I I don't understand why JC Jane wasn't in the ladder match. I thought she was getting pushed, and then she unless she's gonna get like a second chance match, because apparently Nia Jax is getting a second chance match. So um as of right now.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

So if if JC Jane doesn't win money in the bank.

unknown 23:01

Oh god.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Because that's the that's the thought. Everybody's thought is that she's gonna win money in the bank. If she doesn't win money in the bank, then I really don't know what they're what they're doing with Fatal Attraction. They just won the tag titles.

SPEAKER_04 23:20

They did, but what about JC Jane? Is she gonna get her cake and eat it?

SPEAKER_01 23:24

What the what does that what does what do the women's tag titles mean though?

SPEAKER_02 23:28

She's the she's the third wheel just like she was in her old group.

SPEAKER_04 23:31

Oh no, she was the she was the face, let's be real. She was the Shawn Michaels of that group.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

Always has usually you know I had to say that just to continue my my my jokes on that.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

I um I I do like the the Aldous and and Gunther story. I think that's SummerSlam worthy for sure. Uh Liv Morgan and EO Sky is a big pass for me.

SPEAKER_04 24:02

Yeah. I'm not dude, Liv Morgan's stock and just like her hype is just going downhill. I think talk about getting people shoved down our throats, Liv Morgan.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

And and I think we have eight matches on the card right now, expecting there to be at least 12. Nine. Nine. Nine what?

SPEAKER_04 24:22

Nine matches on the card at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Oh, there's nine on the card at the moment?

SPEAKER_04 24:29

And Housen and Dom got added a couple days ago.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

Win! Oh my god. Un Raw.

SPEAKER_04 24:35

On Raw, they got added.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

And the winner keeps the $100,000 that Dom pays off of it, the first Oba. So, you know, that's kind of a big deal.

SPEAKER_01 24:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:46

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

We have nine matches on the card, expecting there to be at least 12, six per night, which is terrible in my opinion. But what else can be added at this point?

SPEAKER_04 24:59

Um probably the women's tag titles. And then maybe are there any men's tag titles probably gonna be Braun Breaker and Theory versus the Street Prophets. They're probably gonna return this Monday, and then we're gonna be like, oh, we want to rematch the tag titles, and what's gonna happen at SummerSlam? And then whoever whoever the and then then like R Truth and Damian Priest, like I don't I'm I don't I don't know why we have makeshift tag teams when you release I understand they just released over half the tag team division a couple months ago. But why a makeshift tag team as the tag team champions?

SPEAKER_02 25:39

Um the who are the United States champions right now? Tiffany Stratton and the latter match and Trick Williams. Trick so Trick's gotta be on there for something. So that's probably gonna be Trick and probably Trick Melo Corbin.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

Trick Mello Corbin and and and Saints.

SPEAKER_04 26:01

Yeah, I was just gonna say I would I wouldn't mind seeing a fatal four-way between them four for the US title. With Saints winning. Oh Saints, okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

Got it, got it. Yeah, so that are something with Trick will be added, some form of those four guys. But outside of that, yeah, I really don't know where they go unless they do something with Finn and and the Tongans, which I don't really think is worth going on SummerSlam. Not with the current way they're doing that. Yeah. Maybe it's only five matches for a night.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

Oh gosh, Ryan. We're never doing this again. We're not doing SummerSlam again?

SPEAKER_04 26:43

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

Five matches a night? Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_04 26:47

No. Dude, we still have as of right now, we got two more smackdowns and one more row. We're gonna we they're gonna have to add something.

SPEAKER_02 26:55

Sammy's gotta do something, right? There's no way they've done all this stuff with Sammy and him doing it.

SPEAKER_04 27:01

He's gonna be the special guest referee. Watch him be the special guest referee.

SPEAKER_01 27:06

Yeah, I feel like he's gonna probably just interfere in some way. Probably in punk and Cody. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:14

Watch him screw over Punk. And then Cody's champion again. Like, oh my god. Oh no. Please. That's gonna kick off one of the Nights of SummerSlam, too. Cody and Punk for the title, and then Sammy Jane screws punk. Oh man. What are the odds Punk wins money in the bank? Oh my gosh. And this is gonna be a whole thing of just oh god.

SPEAKER_02 27:44

Of the old guard. A match on the card that no one's talking about, but I think will actually be probably one of the better matches of the whole card is the Penta Gable Intercontinental Title Match.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:57

Like I know they've done it a couple times already when Gable was pre-El Grande. But I I think Gable's winning that match in his home area on his redemption arc.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

Of course he is, because they keep sticking they they keep sticking it to the old Vince rule that you can't win at home. Well, he might be the only one that wins at home. What do you mean? Everybody's winning in their home country these days.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

Brock is losing in Minnesota. Tiffy is losing in Minnesota.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

Wait, she's from Minnesota?

SPEAKER_02 28:32

Yes. So and on SummerSlam specifically, Gable is probably going to be the only one that wins in his home area.

SPEAKER_03 28:42

Hmm.

SPEAKER_02 28:43

I don't see Tiffy winning the interim title. After already being champion. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:50

And like setting setting her up for Bria doesn't make sense. A guy that should be on this SummerSlam card that's not on the card is Javon Evans. Why? Why is Javon Evans on the card? He was dude, he was hot this year, and then now he's like died down. Him and Dragon Lee are tagged him now. Like, what the hell?

SPEAKER_02 29:16

Javon and Dragon Lee versus Priest and R-Truth. No. Book it triple H. Everyone needs a bathroom break somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

Bookie Triple H. Well, according to those uh viewership numbers that apparently were released like a week ago, SummerSlam isn't pulling the numbers that it used to anyway. Right. So is it really a showcase at this point? We don't know. It could be just another episode of uh Monday Night Raw or some B-level PLE.

SPEAKER_02 29:50

If they're drawing the money at the live gate that TKO wants, that's all that matters at this point.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

Right.

SPEAKER_02 29:56

They don't give a shit. ESPN's paying them either way, Netflix is paying them either way. And when their contracts expire, they'll get another big deal somewhere else, because that's just how it goes.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

That is crazy work.

SPEAKER_02 30:08

I mean, it's not like they're gonna go anywhere. They're gonna continue to pay them for wrestling for a long time, one way or another. Whether they're putting on good shows or not. I mean, in the worst case scenario, they die as a wrestling company and they become a documentary company.

SPEAKER_00 30:24

Oh jeez. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

Another segue.

SPEAKER_02 30:31

Killing it this week, guys. I had two weeks to prepare my segues for this. When I was sitting in my chair, unable to walk with a hole in my foot. I just sat there and thought of segues for two straight weeks.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

It's well third topic of the day are uh wrestling documentaries. So the idea behind this topic was um I I keep seeing the posts about Braun Breaker was put on hold because they didn't want to shove him down people's throats. Uh the debate between people who are not fans of him, he's not ready, versus the people that are like, he's been ready, uh, but they're shoving the same people down our throats now. So why couldn't they give us a new person to shove down our throats, basically? And then seeing Dark Side of the Ring and the uh like the necro butcher and uh Samoa Joe match, and people were talking about Dark Side of the Ring, also with the TNA episode and and how that was portrayed. So I actually watched the the dark side episodes. I am not gonna watch the Unreal episodes. I am not a fan of Unreal personally. I I don't like Bruce Pritchard and I don't like Michael Hayes, I don't like to watch them, I don't like to hear them, I don't like to see them, so I just don't watch uh Unreal.

SPEAKER_02 32:03

I will say through the first two episodes of the new season of Unreal, you might get 30 seconds of combined of those two talking. So that was really nice. That was a plus.

SPEAKER_01 32:15

And I'm also John Cena burned out.

SPEAKER_02 32:19

Yeah, you do get a lot of Cena talking.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

So so there's that. So the the thought uh behind this topic was documentaries, right? On the WWE side, uh documentaries on the like independent side with like Dark Side of the Ring, and just looking back on like older style documentaries, like the WWE 24 and like the WWE uh what was it, day of, right? Like before pay-per-view, like before pay-per-views and leading up to like WrestleMania weekend, and just how they're structured, right? And how they tell a story. It might be one side of a story, uh, it might be the whole story, telling both sides, like the Necro and Samoa Joe episode, or it could be just um like documentaries that only gather people that were what's what's the way to put this? Like with the Dixie Carter thing in in particular, and how it was everything was like against Dixie. Nobody, nobody, nobody spoke up for Dixie Carter, and I know for a fact that there has to be somebody out there who was either close to Dixie or is close to Dixie that would probably try to rebuttal what a lot of people said, um, but they just portrayed it as she declined to interview, and it's like, man, they just like railroaded her.

SPEAKER_02 33:57

I would say in Dixie's case, you do have well-respected talents, at least, yeah. That have come out and and opposed Dixie and AJ and Samojo and those kind of guys that were all like, you know, we would have been TNA lifers if it weren't for Dixie.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

Right.

SPEAKER_02 34:17

Like, I don't think there's many in the wrestling bubble that are fans of her.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

It it reminded me of like the self-destruction of the ultimate warrior.

SPEAKER_02 34:27

Yeah, that's fair.

SPEAKER_01 34:29

Right. And then afterwards, you know, he came back and everything was cool, and there was kind of like a oh sorry for you know portraying you in that light type deal.

SPEAKER_02 34:42

And ultimately that comes down to uh like if Dixie got back into wrestling, she's not making money for the for any wrestling company. Yeah, they'll welcome back a wrestler if they think they can make money off of them.

SPEAKER_01 35:00

Right.

SPEAKER_02 35:01

But like Dixie's not gonna draw a dime, so they're like she was an outsider that came in and messed things up, and we don't want anything to do with her.

SPEAKER_01 35:11

Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. But just interesting how and and it's it's it's a TV show, right? So of course you want to play on people's emotions, and you gotta have you wanna have yeah, you wanna have drama, you want to have a cliffhanger, you know, things like that. So then I was looking at the Unreal stuff, and with like Bruce Pritchard and and what's his name, Michael Hayes and and Triple H and the things that they say and the way that they talk to people and treat people, and I could be thinking, like, oh, maybe they're doing this because this is part of the show, but I I truly believe that this is the way that they are.

SPEAKER_02 35:54

What do you mean by that though? Like the way they talk to people.

SPEAKER_01 35:58

Like you like, remember when uh Joseph Park screwed up the uh was it a screw up or was it the match that went too long?

SPEAKER_03 36:08

It went too long, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:09

Yeah, the the way that he it that it seemed like he was like in fear for his job to me. Right. Right? Yeah, I'm like that. What what type of atmosphere is that?

SPEAKER_02 36:25

But then on the flip side, like you have all the women in WWE that talk about how supportive and great Triple H is to them, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:35

And I wasn't thinking about Triple H in this instance, I was thinking about like Hayes or Pritchard in this instance because they've been in a business for so long that I get the feeling that they believe that they are untouchable, right?

SPEAKER_02 36:52

Yeah, they they definitely, which is funny to think since Pritchard's been hired and fired more times than Big Show's turned heel. Yeah. It is an interesting thing, and I I think especially in Bruce's case, he knows the ones he can talk to like that and the ones he can't.

SPEAKER_00 37:13

Right.

SPEAKER_02 37:14

And and because he knows the ones that'll shut him up. Haze, I think, is just he did too many drugs and he just does whatever he wants to do.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

Oh gosh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:25

I'm I'm with uh I'm with Shay on this whole thing, like word for word. I just don't I don't I don't care to see like all like the backstage stuff and like how they do it. It's just like it doesn't seem like I don't know. It just seems I don't care for it. Like how Darkshadow Ring does their documentary stuff, it looks cool. I mean, plus it this is like old stories, you know, it's nothing recent. Yeah, like a watching Unreal is almost like a reality show, almost. Probably the closest thing to a reality show.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

So I'm more I'm more connected to the the the behind the scenes that only gives you uh a piece of it, like when they do like the day of things or the the the WWE 24 segments when you get to the Unreal piece where you're in the actual room where they're talking about creative and they're telling you if somebody you know should be a star or not. That's the part where I'm like, okay, we're like way too involved, especially if you don't want fans to be overinvested. Why do you have a show that is telling you everything about the inner workings of your show down to the fine details of who you think is worthy of a top spot or not? Chelsea Green, for example.

SPEAKER_02 38:53

Well, I think if they if they just cut it off at anything outside of the creative room is okay, but not the creative room itself, I think that would go a long way. Yeah, like the first couple episodes of this season, there's a lot of scenes saying, like, I wanted to do this, so I pitched it to Triple H. They went and did their thing in creative, and then we we went this route. And I was like, okay, that works for me. That's a talent trying to work with creative, pitching something, creative goes and does their thing, then we see what comes or what comes of it on TV. But like the it would be different if they were like, alright, I pitched this, and then they show them in creative talking about it, and people being like, oh, well, that's stupid, or something. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah, we don't need to need that level of depth.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

But the so but the amount of like memes or articles that I see, whenever there is a new uh season released or new episode released, and I'm like in the back, I'm thinking they're like, oh, mission accomplished. Because wrestling fans just love to debate about wrestling, they love to share stories about wrestling, whether true or untrue, they run with a rumor, you know, snap of a finger, you know, they'll post something that they see on social media or anything that they hear about a particular wrestler that they may not care for, and just run with it. So from a social media perspective, right? I I think it's a home run for wrestling companies.

SPEAKER_02 40:34

That any publicity is good, publicity kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 40:36

Yeah, yeah. It's it's getting clicks, it's getting hits, right? It it's it's pushing the algorithm. It's TMZ.

SPEAKER_02 40:48

It's it's TMZ. Like it doesn't matter if it's real or not, if it gets interaction, then it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

I don't know how many like groups on Facebook or pages on Facebook I just like click out of and just block because the takes are just so outrageous because they just want a bunch of uh engagement.

SPEAKER_04 41:09

Oh yeah, I hate that, man. There's I don't there's the one page I always see it every once in a while, it's just block at this point, but they're always like they'll post like a thing and it'll be something completely different. Like, oh, former AEW superstar debuts in WWE or something like that, or and it's like it's so clickbait. Because they'll put yeah, Sports Kita, they do that shit. I'm like, dude, like their their their titles are so like misleading. You have to click you've got to click their link and read the article, and it's like or it'll be something silly, man. Like, oh god, it's just dude, just retire, delete your page.

SPEAKER_02 41:47

Let's see the it's it's not surprising to me though that that the the documentaries are becoming more plentiful. And I mean there was was it wrestling bios on YouTube? Yeah, that just had a massive catalog of documentaries on anything you could think of. And that went so well that I'm sure the WWE's like, well, fuck it, we might as well do it ourselves. And then we can tell it our way. Yeah. That's true. It's it's the typical like WWE talking about the Monday Night Wars. It's it's much like history. The uh history favors the winner. Yeah, whoever wins can twist it however they want to.

SPEAKER_01 42:35

Well, shoot, even the losers are still talking.

SPEAKER_02 42:38

Yeah. But a lot of those losers that are still talking are getting paid by the winner. One way or another.

SPEAKER_01 42:47

Heck no, not Vince Russo.

SPEAKER_02 42:50

Yeah. Which speaking of which, Russo in that TNA documentary or the TNA episodes of Dark Side, like I saw quite a bit of social media stuff being like, you know, this is the first time in a long time where I'm like, Russo has a point here. He came out looking like a good guy. He did.

SPEAKER_04 43:08

I gotta I gotta watch those. I have to watch those. That was probably the best.

SPEAKER_02 43:12

Yeah, those are the best he's looked in a long, long time. Other than when him and Cornette started fighting, because that's their typical bullshit. But like outside of that, I was like, man, this is like like Russo seems like a normal human being for the most part right now.

SPEAKER_01 43:25

I mean, when it when it comes down to Vince Russo versus you know Hulk Hogan, I I I feel like Russo's probably gonna win eight times out of ten.

SPEAKER_02 43:34

Especially now.

SPEAKER_01 43:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

Hogan Hogan can't exactly fight back anymore.

SPEAKER_01 43:39

I mean, even if he was still alive, he wouldn't win in the eyes of the fans. I mean, he would win on based on his nostalgia and way he makes people feel. Right. But from a backstage perspective, absolutely not. Correct. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:54

But I mean, Russo, I think, was the only one that did even attempt. to back Dixie in certain parts. But he didn't really he didn't really like. I don't feel like he threw either side under the bus like he would typically do in a scenario. He just kind of played the middle, surprisingly, of you know, this is how things were with Jeff and we were good and this is how things were with Dixie and I was doing my job and we were good and you know he he seemed to think that he was good either way.

SPEAKER_01 44:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:30

Until that dastardly Hulk Hogan and Eric Bischoff came in.

SPEAKER_04 44:34

Um to chime in more on this like I didn't I think I haven't talked much about this topic but uh the documentaries I don't I I like how DW does some of their documentaries like you said like the day at the day of or the day before whatever you were talking about and the the was it the 24 they have they had like it was it called 24 or something like that. WWE 24 I like those I I don't care for Unreal. I probably won't ever watch it I've I I have seen like the first like ever two or three episodes I just didn't care for it. But Dark Side of the Ring I'll be hooked to those. I don't know why I just like I just like how they just they they I don't know man like then when they show old clips and stuff or they just go into deep details about things and how they reenact some things with like you know you know I mean how they reenact certain parts they you know what I mean I don't know it's it's it's it's so it's done so well like there's no bullshit behind it. They kind of just get to the point and they like build it up they they talk about everything. They don't leave anything out. Yep I'll say it's well produced and they actually let the people involved speak the truth about it yeah exactly but not the truth that benefits a specific company I um I I haven't finished watching it but I started watching the Necro Butcher and Samoa Joe one and I'm like dude this is some this is badass. Like I also didn't realize Samoa like I didn't I should go back and watch that Samoa Joe and uh Necro Butcher match from 20 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 46:03

Yeah that's right up your alley so that is up my alley I had I had one Iro moment during that episode when Necro actually Ryan you're not well you're gonna watch it so I don't I mean it's not a spo it's not a spoiler it's not a spoiler I have I probably I probably might have already seen it already no but there was one point where Necro was saying like wrestlers today um don't basically saying they don't know how to build a match right like they don't know how to do proper they don't know how to do proper comebacks and you know get the crowd get the crowd excited and I'm like you haven't done anything on a on a major level to even so yeah that's the typical old school train of thought though if they don't do it the way we did it then it's not right.

SPEAKER_04 47:00

I I I saw something today today actually about Necro because someone added Joey Janella and be like hey is Necro butcher going to be in the next Joey Janela spring break and Joey's like out of all due respect I respect the guy and this and that I just don't like there's no there's no political stuff between but I just don't like the some of the stuff he posts he's like he's like not all there and just don't think like he would be suitable for GCW or anything like that. So like Necro Necro is in like I listen I personally respect what he's doing on the Indies if he wants to keep going even though he does not look like he's in shape anymore and I actually texted Shay about this like it was like a week or so ago when it happened.

SPEAKER_02 47:45

Well the dude did uh did have have like a stage three cancer in the last five years.

SPEAKER_04 47:52

Well of course I I I texted Shay about like a week or so ago and Necro was just like in a deathmatch tournament and the guy hits him with a with a beer bottle that breaks and gashes his arm open like Necro is leaking blood. Like he's he's it's pouring from his body and they finish the match off a really weak clothesline and Necro wins and he's refusing treatment and everyone's like dude like there's the people like oh man you should really go to the hospital and get help. Those are people like oh my god he's so badass.

SPEAKER_02 48:24

I'm like yeah he might be badass in the moment but it's like dudes literally could die in front of you he's leaking so much I saw so much blood pouring out of his arm I'm like how is he not dead and when you watch this this episode you will say the same thing two or three I saw this I said the same thing watching the Nick Gage documentary when he almost died 20 years ago. Yep well there's there's a match specifically in this thing I think it was a light tube got his arm and gashed him and they they like stopped the match and with him and Samoa Joe? No this was a different match they were talking about during there but they stopped the match and his friend that he was wrestling against was like oh you know freaking out I'm so sorry and the guy or Necro was like chill bro we're good meanwhile he's sitting there like bleeding gallons and and you know what really pissed me off about this episode?

SPEAKER_01 49:19

Because at this point at this point I'm just gonna say it Ryan you can see it later I will the the way that you portray deathmatch wrestling and your whole sole purpose is to make this look as real as possible. People want you want people to believe that this is real there's real hatred and everything that you're doing is legit so you have this as spectacular deathmatch as most wrestling fans will tell you right historic deathmatch right wasn't even a deathmatch it just became a brutal match yeah brutal match okay brutal match right but this put this style of ultraviolent wrestling you know on the map in the US as far as indies go that's what that's what the the word is but anyway you have this ridiculous match and apparently you are like partly concussed and and and all these like brutal things are happening to your body but then you like go get cleaned up and you tape yourself up and apparently you have another match on a on another show the same day in the same building as if nothing ever happened yeah yeah so so they talk you're saying that they talk about how this was like a uh building block for deat matches and blah blah blah for the US what was very telling to me that that makes me feel like like maybe he's getting too much credit was that that match that they had against Joe was in the ECW arena with ECW fans in attendance and they were cheering for Joe the majority of the match. So if you were a big to-do in deathmatches prior to that don't you think the ECW crowd would have been behind you since that was their style of wrestling this is what I mean by portrayal in these documentaries.

SPEAKER_02 51:19

Yep yep like I get the ECW crowd was a mix of bloodthirsty and they really liked real wrestling like the real technical wrestling side of things too but like I don't know I feel like he would have they wouldn't have taken them deep deep into the match before them they finally started cheering for him especially I mean because it's like Joe obviously was was still a semi big deal then but he was that was early in his career. He wasn't the Joe of TNA the Joe of now like he hadn't even got to TNA at that point. So you would have thought that that Necro would have been had the crowd behind them.

SPEAKER_04 52:01

That was like that was right before TNA though because when did the AJ Styles Daniels and uh Joe match happen?

SPEAKER_02 52:08

Yeah he was 2005 yeah he said something about it in there he's like it wasn't that long after that that I wrapped up ROH and went to TNA but it was like within the next year or so okay and then it's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 52:22

And then that led to I guess Necro's ROH run but I mean his ROH run was like okay right he tamed it down a lot for ROH.

SPEAKER_02 52:33

Yeah I mean it's just like Nick Gage going into AEW he he had to tame it down a lot for that match. Yeah but that to me the deathmatch wrestlers that go out there and and do what they do I get get them more respect when they can go into a different style and perform still right you're not just out there being a crash test dummy like to be able to if you can go in and wrestle with somebody and hold your own then that shows you're multifaceted you don't have to go out there and destroy your body every match.

SPEAKER_01 53:10

Yeah that's true and and he definitely became like a utility guy for Ring of Honor like he was a name right the because people knew him prior to coming into ROH so I knew Necro Butcher from his deathmatch style but I guess I didn't see the most of him until he was in Ring of Honor and he was one of those people that stood out to me because he had a unique look.

SPEAKER_02 53:36

Right. And I would say like he kind of got his look from Bruiser Brody uh Brody Lee kind of got his look from Necro butcher yeah it influenced others but on the the flip side of that was you know Joe was very much so I'm not a deathmatch guy. I'm a straight up wrestler wrestler and I think coming out of that Joe took more risks and started to to not deat matches necessarily but he was more willing to go out there and and do some of the hardcore stuff after that. Which again that's that's the flip of it it it gave him another option another level he could go to but overall the I think the episode was pretty good and the TNA episodes were pretty good and the dark side doesn't typically miss in terms sometimes they don't pick the greatest subjects for the episodes but they still make a good episode pretty much every time.

SPEAKER_00 54:38

Yeah I agree with that. But yeah alright that's all I got guys all right time to go watch WB24. Are you no you know what I missed?

SPEAKER_02 54:52

You know what like it's not I guess it's not technically a documentary but it's sort of a documentary. I missed the table for threes oh yeah yeah I enjoyed those were nice yeah I enjoyed those because you just had the three wrestlers sit down and talk and and go into whatever they wanted to go into or go into a topic given to them but that was a different way of doing it than your typical one-on-one interviews about a subject I just I enjoyed those true I've said it many a time uh if for some reason WWE ever stopped being a wrestling company they would be a good documentary company from the production standpoint of it they are are very good at the production of it all they may twist the stories but they don't make bad looking documentaries. Yes 100% all right guys so I think we're gonna wrap it up for the week anything anything any last remarks uh yeah I can't wait to see Ryan on NXK next week no I'm not going next week I've already plus listen me and Shay are going to SummerSlam so be ready like two of the three marks will be at SummerSlam so and we're I'm excited I'm excited just to just hang out for a weekend with with with my homie Shay now I'm I'm somewhat hyped for SummerSlam but more hype for everything else honestly I wasn't invited oh you just I'm kidding I don't I got I got WWE money I don't have TKO money you got you got AEW money though dude so there's uh an indie here in town saturday with Mark Marrow and Shotzi you should go and get get get a shot get a Shotzi picture I would go but I have two different birthday parties I have to go to niece or uh nephew at a birthday party at one and then a niece and nephew birthday party at four are they having cake yes okay then definitely definitely go okay and then Shay and his cake AEW's coming in August I just saw and then like the week after that NXT's coming and then the Monday after NXT Raw's coming good lord oh there you go so hit all them up yeah I might try to get to one of them at least but I'm not gonna go to or I if I go to NXT they'll let me in the door at least so there's that.

SPEAKER_03 57:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 57:28

Yeah because you're gonna pay for a ticket this is NXT is free for the Orlando ding dong it's all like $15 that they're charging for the NXT tickets.

SPEAKER_04 57:37

Yeah this it's not even gonna be televised.

SPEAKER_02 57:39

I don't care I might get to see uh Mike Santana and uh Tony D. What are they calling it dude? Narco narc Narku oh yeah wasn't that a manga name or some shit for Santana Santana's gonna be back on the road yeah but apparently they're not not a subject from today obviously since we've done these subjects but changing their fucking names when they have been on NXT Wait his name's not Mike Santana they would not say Mike Santana when they came out which is kind of they're changing the name if they changed his name bro that's gonna be so stupid it's it's one thing to change their name if it's like fresh debut they hadn't been on it on WWT but to have him on WWTV quite a bit in the last year as Mike Santana and then if he comes in and they change his name like that's gonna be some bullshit if any even if they shorten into Santana I'll be okay with that.

SPEAKER_01 58:47

Yeah I'm fine with that but they wouldn't even say like they were like oh you know who he is he's yeah they did that the typical thing there and I'm like oh he's gonna get a full name change he's gonna like they do it with every like everyone who debuts or something like oh you know who that is you know who that is except for mason rogue they were like who the fuck is this guy but yeah I I sorry that was that was a tangent but I just I can't stand that shit like they're gonna be like oh yeah Mike Santana or formerly known as Mike Santana now fucking Jose Guevara I don't know they're gonna give him some Spanish name that anyways go ahead Shay wrap it up alrighty we're out of here guys thank you guys for watching uh as always this is uh Shay and Brooks and Ryan as we head toward our next uh goal of a thousand downloads and it's not gonna take us very long we're gonna get there do we get a gold star for a thousand downloads I don't know what we get we're gonna start uh posting our trajectory on on the social platforms so people can be like oh yeah they're actually uh they're actually out there people are listening to those guys but yeah all right guys peace later Mark and I'll be a little bit more than